Joogie
Jun 6 2004, 12:46 AM
Wow! I never thought of that! I'm generally fairly good at picking up the subtleties in phrasing, but this one completely skipped me!
Ooh! The possibilities this opens up!
*brainstorms*
She's hugged him before, so it can't be that. Um... You notice that it doesn't say she did the thing in question
to Harry. It could have been something else completely unconnected.

I wish I knew!
But you certainly have a point...I seriously wonder whether J. K Rowling is doing this on purpose to get us all excited!
Come now, everyone, this has major potential!
Godrics_Heiress
Jun 6 2004, 01:01 PM
Thanks, Joogie! It's curious, isn't it?
So, no takers yet?

Anyone...?
Cassandra Elise
Jun 7 2004, 02:33 PM
| QUOTE (Ren @ Jun 6 2004, 07:31 AM) |
If so, what is that "something" that Hermione has never done before? Perhaps she fell in love? Or it is that she began to feel something deeper for Harry other than the platonic friendship?
|
Not to throw a wet blanket over the situation, since I am an adamant Hr/H shipper, but I don't think the "something she never did before," has anything to do with falling in love. You have to remember this is from Harry's POV. How would he know if she was falling in love for the first time? For all he knows, she's been in love before.
Besides, being in love is not often maifested in an outward display of manners. It's often an internal feeling. So since this is from Harry's POV, he wouldn't know what Hermione was thinking.
But what was the "something"? I had always thought JKR had just written a faulty sentence, but your theory gives new light to the situation.
DVSEzekiel316
Jun 7 2004, 04:38 PM
I'm with Cassandra Elise...
Though the feverish H/Hr shipper that I am, I believe that the "something she [Hermione] had never done before" was kissing him on the cheek.
As to falling in love, the book was writen in Harry's perspective, so even if she did fall in love, we wouldn't know because Harry cannot possibly know how Hermione feels (well actually two people in love CAN, but they just done realize it yet ;P)
The fact that JKR wrote, "And she did something she had never done before, and kissed him on the cheek" seemed pretty significant to me. Heres how it goes...
I read all (at the time) four books before I became a H/Hr shipper and when I read that part, I felt like it was some sort of significance. Remember, this is BEFORE i became a H/Hr shipper...
JKR has written in the books instances where other girls have kissed him. Katie, Angelina, and Alicia all kissed him after a Quidditch match and Fleur Delacour swooped down on him and kissed him too. Unless I'm mistaken, those girls havent kissed Harry before and JKR didn't say that the girls did something they had never done before, and kissed Harry.
Thats all I have to say...
Godrics_Heiress
Jun 7 2004, 07:10 PM
Oops!
I totally forgot about the story being narrated in Harry's POV. Anyhow, I agree that it has some significance considering Harry was able to recognize that it was the first time Hermione did such a thing and that he did not make it out when other girls kissed him on the cheek.
Melissa627
Jun 8 2004, 05:58 AM
| QUOTE (NAPPA @ Jan 2 2003, 09:13 PM) |
I always thought this chapter to be from his view a loooong time later. This gave me hope that Harry would not die in book 7. Anyway... I do belive you're onto something... something very very good |
In PS/SS there is an even better bit that makes it seem like Harry lives.
He is taking his finals and it says "years later when Harry couldn't remember how he had managed to get through finals". ) or words to that effect. The "years later part" is definitely in there though
Melissa
MOD NOTE: The exact quote was:
In years to come, Harry would never quite remember how he had managed to get through his exams ...
from Philosopher's / Sorcerer's Stone, Chapter 16, Through the Trapdoor, opening line
However, this doesn't prove that those years include post-Hogwarts ones. 
~gal-texter
Cassandra Elise
Jun 8 2004, 08:46 AM
| QUOTE (Melissa627 @ Jun 8 2004, 01:58 PM) |
In PS/SS there is an even better bit that makes it seem like Harry lives.
He is taking his finals and it says "years later when Harry couldn't remember how he had managed to get through finals". ) or words to that effect. The "years later part" is definitely in there though
Melissa |
YAY! I have renewed hope that Harry will not die!
Anyways, back to the significace of the kiss on the cheek . . . I partly believe Harry was just referring to the fact that Hermione had never kissed him before. And I partly believe Harry was referring to something else that Hermione had never done before.
Gah, I wish the seventh book was out already. Then it would be clear whether this kiss had any significance, or whether it was nothing more than a friendly gesture.
Melissa627
Jun 8 2004, 03:02 PM
| QUOTE (DVSEzekiel316 @ Jun 8 2004, 12:38 AM) |
I'm with Cassandra Elise... Though the feverish H/Hr shipper that I am, I believe that the "something she [Hermione] had never done before" was kissing him on the cheek.
|
I agree. . .the "something" was the kiss. I suspect that sentence suffered from bad editing
Here's a quote from JKR, that just might have something to do with that kiss. It was in an audio interview with her roughly in November 2001 (about the same time PS/SS premiered in theaters)
JKR audio interview She was asked about the embargo on info regarding GOF before publication.
"I think that my publishers were keen not to have the embargo broken but they have my wholehearted support in that not from the marketing point of view but because this was the book in which you saw the first death and
also at the end of the book 4 something *huge* happens in terms of the over all plot. Which I don't want to say on the radio obviously in case people haven't read the book or is half way through it. And I didn't want that to leak because for children .(mumbled).
I've spent 10 years . .the final. . closing scene in book 4. I've spent 10 years writing my way towards that scene and people who have read that will know why its so significant, why its so important. I did not want that leaked. Because I knew that kids were waiting with bated breath and I really genuinely wanted that to be a magical experience. that they would get the book and read and get frightened and excited and overwrought as they approached that ending."
Now the "final closing scene" of GOF takes place in the chapter curiously named "The Beginning." They are back at Kings Cross. And they have already left Platform 9 3/4. Ron has said good-bye (and presumably left, Hermione kisses his cheek, and the twins interrupt to thank him once again for the gold. LV's rebirth doesn't even take place in that chapter.
In the audio of this quote, just after JKR says that she didn't want it leaked, you can hear her change gears mentally. As if she said to much and was trying to vague things up again.
Now I remember the R/Hrs saying (when this quote first surfaced a year ago) that there is no way that she would spend 10 years writing towards nothing more than a kiss on the cheek.
Simple . .that kiss was the kick off towards the series' denouement. She has mentioned a few times that Love is the one thing that LV doesn't understand. He detests it and he underestimates it time and time again. That's why I think that love will be his ultimate downfall.
It nearly killed him once when the killing curse rebounded, only his experiments into immortality saved him from being well and truly dead that night. And it drove him out of Harry's body when he possessed him in OOTP.
Love or Heart as Dumbledore explains to Harry that is both more wonderful and terrible than anything else in the universe. So much so that its kept behind locked doors at the DOM. Harry has already experienced the "terrible side" of Love, the deaths of his parents and of Sirius. Its time for him to experience the wonderful side as well.
That's what I think that chapter titled "The Beginning" means. And what the kiss signifies as well.
Melissa
Anazecria
Jun 8 2004, 03:40 PM
| QUOTE (DVSEzekiel316) |
Unless I'm mistaken, those girls havent kissed Harry before and JKR didn't say that the girls did something they had never done before, and kissed Harry.
Thats all I have to say... |
Shippy Side: *stretches after a long absence* So... maybe we are asking the wrong question? Perhaps what's not important is that she did something she had never done before, what's more important is that she did something that she might do again?
"... and she did some she'd only done once before ..."
Logical Side: That sounds awfully fluffy for JKR don't you think Shippy?
Shippy Side: Oh just ruin the moment for me completely why don't you? *glare*
Logical Side: Despite the fluffiness of that statement, you may have something there. The question is when will Hermione do it again?
Shippy Side: *wanders off into that Shiny, Happy Place*
Nielle,
Melissa627
Jun 8 2004, 10:19 PM
| QUOTE (Anazecria @ Jun 8 2004, 11:40 PM) |
Logical Side: Despite the fluffiness of that statement, you may have something there. The question is when will Hermione do it again?
Nielle, |
Oh I think that Hermione has already done it again and it slipped past fairly quietly.
OOTP Chap 19 Page 404 (US edition)
"Don't let Ron see what's on those Slytherins' badges," she whispered urgently.
Harry looked questioningly at her, but she shook her head warningly; Ron had just ambled over to them looking lost and desperate.
"Good Luck, Ron," said Hermione standing on tiptoe and kissing him on the cheek. "And you, Harry --"
And you, Harry WHAT?!?!?! What action could she possibly be including him in. .simple its a good luck kiss. And JKR interupts us from seeing Harrys reaction to show us Ron's. . Just like she interupted any possible reaction of his at King's Cross when the twins interupted (for no read I might add)
gal-texter
Jun 9 2004, 06:18 AM
| QUOTE |
| "And you, Harry --" |
Melissa627 - there's a thread about that
here. *aims Modly wand at thread to retrieve it from the Archive*
Fawkes Flame
Jun 12 2004, 08:08 AM
well that kiss must have been somewhat significant. I mean I can't speak for others but I don't think 14 yr olds generally kiss each other because theyre only friends. That strikes me as something somewhat odd for a young adolescent to do. But based on the text, it is remarked that yes it was something Hermione had never done before...but why would that be important unless one or both of them (H/Hr) made some sort of discovery about their feelings for one another? JK simply could have said she kissed him end of story, but she chose to throw a reaction along with it. If it wasn't important at all then it wouldnt have jumped off the page the way it did due to the reaction that took place afterward. JK also took great care to interrupt the moment immediately the way she has in many other H/Hr moments...(there is an essay about that on Portkey somewhere...ill try and find it but if u go to their site its not hard to find). Again, the scene could have been written differently in that there might have been no reaction and just a kiss or even no kiss at all. I just don't think JK would have added to the scene if it wasn't important for us to take note of.
jackryan411
Jun 12 2004, 12:55 PM
As I've said about "The Beginning" before...R/Hr shippers like to say the beginning refers to the war with Voldemort starting. But then, the last chapter of the fifth book is called, "The Second War Begins." So,
that was when the Second War began, not the fourth book. So what was it the beginning of? Simple, really. Hershey's kisses, anyone?
Fawkes Flame
Jun 12 2004, 01:51 PM
well the beginning might not be a reference to the second war beginning...perhaps its more like the beginning of voldemort's return or something. it doesnt necessarily mean the war in general though i still prefer the H/Hr beginning...
sorta off topic but how do i get one of those pictures under my name with a caption...im new to this sorta thing...any help would be cool
FireEyes7
Jun 12 2004, 06:58 PM
I know if any one else has posted this but Hermione's kiss in GOF
DID affect Harry in the book it says on page 716 "
When he looked back, even a month later, Harry found he had only scattered memories of the next few days." Hermione's kiss did affect him. It was one of the few things he remembered cearly.
Fawkes Flame
Jun 12 2004, 09:07 PM
but which next few days is that referring to...i thought the kiss was on the very last page so the next few days could refer to the last few days of school and not include the trip home or the kiss...its not very specific (as usual)
doejoecricket
Jun 20 2004, 02:52 PM
Of course! We've been rolled over in grammar at school and the comma makes it a double predicate in the subject, thus the compound sentence means that Hermione did more things! Its so obvious, yet makes PERFECT sense! JK is really good at hiding the little things that count.
pnkrkprincess91
Jun 21 2004, 01:54 PM
| QUOTE |
| JK is really good at hiding the little things that count. |
Which is why she keeps me tossing and turning at night! But God help me, I love the woman anyway. Let's just hope the next two books do prove that "The Beginning" refers to a beautiful Harry/Hermione relationship.
~*kt*~
Tech.5
Jul 6 2004, 04:52 AM
Mod Note: Merged from topic originally titled love in disguise, the last chapter in GoF.The beginning ~Anazecria/Nielle
There's something about the title for the last chapter in GoF.The beginning,isn't that the chapter when Hemoine kisses Harry on the cheek.Maybe the title suits the moment,the beginning of Hermoine falling in love with Harry,cause what else will it possibly be the beginning of,it can't be the war because it started at the end of book 5.
potter078
Jul 9 2004, 09:25 AM
I love this topic. :thumbup: The kiss in GOF i never really analised intel now. but, I don't Think harry really had time to think about the kiss i noticed that right after the twins pull him away. I know he would most likely be stuned but had no time to react.
Now with the kiss in ootp. And i quote.
"Don't let ron see what's on those Slytherins' badges." She wispered urgently. Harry looked questioningly at her, but she shook her head warningly; ron had just ambled over to them looking lost and desperate. "Good luck ron," said hermione, standing on tiptoe and kissing him on the cheek. "and you Harry-"
Notice she does use it to destract him. Harry had no idea what she was talking about. She had to act fast so i'm thinking(i don't do that often) that it was the first thing that came to mind for her to do.
Potter078
reeve
Jul 9 2004, 10:13 PM
hi, everyone,
i'm new to this forum. just browsing and found this topic, which i've been wondering about too.
and here's my two cents on it:
in gof, i think it's pretty significant that hermione kissed harry at the station on the very last page of the book. not sure if it the second last or third last paragraph though...

to put that on the last page, in most books, would most likely mean that the pair was meant to be together at some point further down the road. at least if i were writing the book, i would do that.

it's like saying, 'it's ok, i'm there for you, no matter what's gonna happen from now on...'
and no, i don't think hermione did anything else but kiss harry. and i don't think jkr miswrote that sentence. it's structured that way to distract us,
i think teenagers are usually extremely self-conscious. so for hermione to kiss anyone, she would have put a lot of thought into it. and notice that, her first kiss IS with harry, and not ron. if she liked ron, why didn't she kiss him too? after all, it was with ron that she was arguing about not asking her to go with him to the ball before krum did just a few months back. she KNOWS that ron has a crush on her, so why not kiss ron as well as a sign of patching up and letting him know that he'd still have a chance with her? i think the main thing here is that hermione doesn't have a crush on ron, and she just doesn't want to lead him on, but that's just my opinion, so don't bash me for it, please...
-----------reeve
Welcome to Portkey, reeve. But to keep the discussions organized, I moved your OOTP comments to this thread. ~gal-texter
Brino43
Jul 29 2004, 07:51 PM
Mod Note: This post and the ones that follow it merged from topic originally entitled The Beginning?, Something in GoF that we overlooked... ~Anazecria/Nielle
Well, the last chapter of GoF was called 'The Beginning' Everyone says 'it's the beginning of the war', but with the last chapter of OotP being ' the second war begins', why would she repeat something? then something came to my attention- since it was noted that it was the first time she did it, would it not be considered a beginning?- im talking about Hermy kissing Harry on the cheek, of course!
could 'the beginning' refer to H/Hr? gimme your thoughts and pumpkin pie, please
The_Boy_Who_Lived
Jul 29 2004, 08:05 PM
Well I'm sure, a mod is going to move this soon.
I'd like to add to this, JK did say the one Harry would end up with would be from the beginning! Makes you wonder hmm?
Godricssword
Jul 29 2004, 08:13 PM
Could you elaborate on that?
When she said it? In what interview? Where I can find it? Because if it's true, it certainly narrows the field.
Hikaru
Jul 29 2004, 08:15 PM
The_Boy_Who_Lived
| QUOTE |
since it was noted that it was the first time she did it, would it not be considered a beginning?- im talking about Hermy kissing Harry on the cheek, of course! could 'the beginning' refer to H/Hr? gimme your thoughts and pumpkin pie, please |
Well I guess I can count myself in the group of people that didn'r notice this; however, it makes an interesting point. The very title doesn't specidy the begining of what. One would assume they were refering to the secodn war, but actuall as pointed in OotP that was like a year later, since Voldemort was, in a way, "sort of quite" during Harry's 5th. So Pergaps it could be related to Hermione. Could it be the beginning of their partership? I think I need to check this in more depth
The_Boy_Who_Lived
| QUOTE |
| I'd like to add to this, JK did say the one Harry would end up with. would be from the beginning! Makes you wonder hmm? |
It really makes me wonder now!
The_Boy_Who_Lived
Jul 29 2004, 08:52 PM
| QUOTE (Godricssword @ Jul 29 2004, 08:13 PM) |
Could you elaborate on that?
When she said it? In what interview? Where I can find it? Because if it's true, it certainly narrows the field. |
Umm it was from a interview from a long time ago. I believe it was right after GoF came out. But I don't remember which one. Sorry.

Maybe someone else remembers?
Muirnin
Jul 29 2004, 09:24 PM
I have been trying to find the quote for you regarding this topic, but I have yet been able to hit on the exact wording of the quote... I know I have heard it... and read it...
If anyone else wants to have a go at the search you can go to
Quick Quotes and find a wonderful spot that has a search engine for all of Jo's interviews going back to 1997!
ThePhoenixEffect
Jul 29 2004, 09:38 PM
That quote does not really exist. It was found in a German magazine, but it was faked apparently.
That quote is known as the : Holy Grail of Shipping Quotes
It says something along the lines of Harry falling for someone from the beginning, but it isn't Hermione.
Someone supposedly found it on some German magazine, but as some of our German Harmonians/Pumpkinpiers will tell you, the grammar of the quote was attrocious and it used "Hermione" when in the German translation, they use "Hermine" (or something like that so it couldn't be from some German magazine.
Anyway, I repeat, this quote is not real.
Nora
Jul 29 2004, 09:57 PM
Just wanted to add something to that since I'm german: I don't know which magazine this quote was supposed to be in, but I just recently bought a german magazine and they didn't write "Hermine", either. They wrote "Hermione". They all handle it differently over here.
Oh, and great spotting about the chapter title!
Even if the quote from JKR is wrong, I still find it very telling if you consider that JKR described the last scene/chapter of GoF as "huge", "significant" and "important". I recently re-read the last chapter, and except for Dumbledore's speech, Hermione stating that Skeeter is an animagus and Harry giving the galleons to the twins (which is really nothing that would fit into JKR's description), there's really only Hermione's kiss for Harry. I think Brino43 really might be onto something.
Anazecria
Jul 30 2004, 03:42 AM
Mod Note: Moving this to H/Hr Main as it is clearly not an essay. Also, will probably be merging this with a similar thread shortly.
Anazecria/Nielle
EDIT: Merged. Also, the "beginning" quote has been covered extensively in this thread. ~Nielle
inyia
Aug 9 2004, 10:39 PM
Mod-Note: Merged formally thread called: The Beginning with this thread since its too about the Kiss. ~PhoenixwriterHey,
I was thinking about this, maybe this are really old news, but I haven't seen them post anywhere else so there they go!
Please moderators if it hasn't to be here or there is a topic with that text, feel free to repost it.
Well I know that we have been thinking about the last chapter of GoF and that the fandom have been imaginating Harry thinking about Hermione all the summer long.
And when we first read OotP we get mad because there is no mention to the kiss on the station.
Well, there is
The last chapter of GoF is called "The Beginning" andwell, it happens a month away from the last facts of the book.
There is explained the very last endings of the book four, but hey, he is Remembering, and remembers few things.
My first thought was that that chapter was called the beginning because Voldemort had come back but it's also the beginning of book five.
Well there are my thoughs, I'm leaving on holydays so, till I come back.
It wouldn't be long
Urazz
Aug 10 2004, 03:09 PM
I find that JKR will pretty much not give any detail or provide distractions that can show the final pairing. Two examples in GOF would be Krum's interrogation of Harry about Hermione where Harry's thoughts are interrupted, the kiss in the last chapter where there is no detail on Harry's or Hermione's reaction to the kiss on the cheek. Though in my opinion, in OOTP we see more small signs on Harry and Hermione's feelings to each other.
Anazecria
Aug 13 2004, 08:16 AM
Mod Note: Removed posts that provoked Debate. We have a Debate Forum guys, let Shippers squee freely here, hmm?
Anazecria/Nielle
varifer
Nov 9 2004, 11:44 PM
True J.K. Rowling didn't have to have "the kiss" in the GoF text. If it wasn't significantly why put it in? What would you get by writting it were it comes out, of the blue to the reader?

what you get is getting us all hype up maybe that's what she wants? But I as an ameture writter, would just be frustrated

with people always misreading the text and try to quickly resolved it by giving my characters a love life

to some one else. and clearly stating who the charaters like.
Maybe it's just me as a writter that feel that way.
hazza0 and 0mione
Nov 13 2004, 03:00 AM
The other thing that i think is siginificant about Hermione kissing Harry on the cheek, was that she did it at the train station. What's so important about this? Well, i can't remember if it's on jkrowling.com or if it was in a book about her, but she said that her parents had met at a train station (I think it was Kings Cross, and that's why she choose it for the HP books) and i think she'd always thought that it was romantic...
Sarmi
Nov 13 2004, 10:41 AM
No, JKR's parents met on the train itself. She thinks, and views, a train station as romantic. Of course who wouldn't, especially if it's kissing your love before he leaves, while the train moves out of the station. How many movies have had a scene like this?
Plus, that kiss was in the Chapter titled "The Beginning" and technically, one could say that it's the beginning of OotP. Since that chapter started a month later & Harry is remembering what went on those final days.
Sarmi
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