As I know this thread still exist just kinda far back, maybe on page 3 or 4 or 5.How comes you're back? I did already miss the sarcastic one. I hope to see more from you
Full Version: Book(s) 5: Occlumency and H/H - analysis, what if's
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I think you're right about JKR and why she don't let him think about Hermione.
As I know this thread still exist just kinda far back, maybe on page 3 or 4 or 5.
How comes you're back? I did already miss the sarcastic one. I hope to see more from you
As I know this thread still exist just kinda far back, maybe on page 3 or 4 or 5.How comes you're back? I did already miss the sarcastic one. I hope to see more from you
Hmm...it is a bit like the Pensieve dilemma. You want to so bad...but you know it's an invasion of their privacy. That didn't stop him from checking out Snape's Pensieve though...but I think with Hermione it'd be different.
No he would have to be curious. When he starts to realize he likes her (and since he is sort of a shy one with the girls) he would use legilimency to see what she thinks of him. She means alot to him I don't think he would want to try to confess his feelings with the fear in the back of his mind that she wouldn't feel the same. He would probably like to be secure he is not making a fool of himself. That is just my opinion.
And I think it's a good opinion! 
I really don't know what to say...
Love Millie
p.s. no, I am NOT speechless!
I really don't know what to say...
Love Millie
p.s. no, I am NOT speechless!
| QUOTE (Jack) |
| Hmm...it is a bit like the Pensieve dilemma. You want to so bad...but you know it's an invasion of their privacy. That didn't stop him from checking out Snape's Pensieve though...but I think with Hermione it'd be different. |
I'm going a bit OT here (surprise) but other times Harry has entered Pensieves, the reasoning was different. Dumbledore's, he didn't actually know what it was, and it was accidental that he entered the thing in the first place, his curiousity got the better of him and he stuck around. Snape, he knew exactly what he was doing, and he did it out of spite.
I think Hermione would be different. He has never pushed her to answer him before, (he never asked who she was going to the Ball with, and while he did ask her how she was making it to all her classes in PoA, he said "is there any point asking you...") While Harry is extremely curious, I don't know if that would win out over his respect for Hermione's privacy. With Legilimency, he would have the same dilemma. While I would like to have a sneek peek as much as Harry, I would be just as thrilled if he didn't, because that shows just how deep his respect for her goes. To resist temptation. Choices. To respect Hermione or to figure her out.
Look. Even if Harry does get Legilimency (I think he will seeing he learning to block minds. Reading them is close enough) he won't breach people's mind like that. That's a great sign of disrespect to invade Hermione's privacy. Harry won't nor will he ever do something that low. (Unless it's by accident or Hermione gives her ok.)
Well, what you have to remember is that Legilemency is not like reading minds. It's simply detecting certain nuances of the mentality of the other person. Even if Harry did learn to Legimens and used it on Hermione (unlikely that he would, but still possible) he would not be able to know if she did like him, unless he directly asked her or not, in which case he's be able to determine the truthfulness of her answer.
Darkstar
Darkstar
No, no. The more you master Legilimency, the more images and feelings you can extract. Snape "saw" Harry's memories, Voldemort doesn't even need his wand and the incantation to use Legilimency on a minor scale. He just needs eye contact to understand feelings or truth. I'm sure with a wand and the incantation, Voldemort can pry you open and see more than Snape could.
Legilimency is like searching for something. Mind reading makes it sound to simple. If Harry is moderate in skill with Legilimency, he can search Hermione's feelings, then tell if she likes him in "that" way or not.
Legilimency is like searching for something. Mind reading makes it sound to simple. If Harry is moderate in skill with Legilimency, he can search Hermione's feelings, then tell if she likes him in "that" way or not.
OK...
I had a big response all typed out... When I realized there was no point in arguing this fact. It would be off-topic.
Still... I just think Legilimency is more looking for instantaneous thought (to borrow a math concept there). He couldn't tell if she liked him or not unless she was thinking about it. Let's just agree to disagree though. Its not really a big deal.
Getting back on topic...
I think what's going to happen is that Harry would later realize he's BEEN in love with Hermione, but simply has been trying to deny it to himself. And there'll be a catalyst that will simply make him give in to inevitability.
Darkstar
I had a big response all typed out... When I realized there was no point in arguing this fact. It would be off-topic.
Still... I just think Legilimency is more looking for instantaneous thought (to borrow a math concept there). He couldn't tell if she liked him or not unless she was thinking about it. Let's just agree to disagree though. Its not really a big deal.
Getting back on topic...
I think what's going to happen is that Harry would later realize he's BEEN in love with Hermione, but simply has been trying to deny it to himself. And there'll be a catalyst that will simply make him give in to inevitability.
Darkstar
That's something really. Or maybe he'll supress it. Unsure of Hermione's feelings.
I have to agree with Darkstar, if you can Legilimency this don't say he will be able and read Hermiones mind and I really doubt this will play any part of Harrys realicing his feelings for Hermione. Its kinda weird to think Harry can just that way realice this.
I rather think he will start to wonder about his own doing, his own behaviour against Hermione. Thats whan he get there is more as just friends. Firstly Harry shows already this change in behaviour against Hermione. To be exactly since GoF right as he saw her at the Yule Ball. There he does for the very first time wonder what she would think, though its pretty uninteresting if he isn't interesting in her. This goes on in OotP where he do think a lot about her, bring a lot strange comparing or remembers things than he does expect a lot more from her as from anybody else.
He can live with if Ron didn't write a word though he is angry but that Hermione did write him the truth this makes him simply furious.
I rather think he will start to wonder about his own doing, his own behaviour against Hermione. Thats whan he get there is more as just friends. Firstly Harry shows already this change in behaviour against Hermione. To be exactly since GoF right as he saw her at the Yule Ball. There he does for the very first time wonder what she would think, though its pretty uninteresting if he isn't interesting in her. This goes on in OotP where he do think a lot about her, bring a lot strange comparing or remembers things than he does expect a lot more from her as from anybody else.
He can live with if Ron didn't write a word though he is angry but that Hermione did write him the truth this makes him simply furious.
I agree with Nielle...I think he has too much respect for Hermione to look in her Pensieve (if she had one)...it's too intrusive and he cares much about Hermione.
I do agree with my darlings Jack and Nielle. Harry has too much respect for Hermione to force his way into her thoughts... though, we can always dream...
Love Mill<z>ie
Love Mill<z>ie
well, they would probably be able to communicate mentally since they think on almost the same wavelength 
I agree with Jack and Nielle.....again! It'll be too intrusive, and he isn't like that. He respects her personal space.
Awwwwww!
Awwwwww!
I don't mean he'd thinker into Hermione's thought... maybe a mutual link that they would share but nothing too intrusive to manipulate Hermione to liking him.... and honestly, does he have too?
| QUOTE |
| manipulate Hermione to liking him.... and honestly, does he have too? |
Nope. He already does! Yay!!!
Hmmm...a mutual link? If Mione learns to do what Harry's learning to do maybe they can talk to eachother telepathically, and share the memories and feelings with eachother, and they put up that wall thingie to make sure they don't share thoughts that they don't want to share! Cool!
Lol, he doesn't MANIPULATE Hermione. That's not his type, but I'm sure if he gave her the puppy-dog look, she'd comply. Anyway, I still think it'll take till Book 7 for Harry to realize it and he won't realize it till the big battle.
If Harry mastered Occlumency, can he close his mind to Hermione?
*Appears from the Shadows*
Hmm. . . I don't know if this allowed, but do you think Occlumency could work against Hermione. As Snape said, Occlumency is "the magical defense of the mind against external penetration". Hermione seems to be able to easily know what Harry's thinking and feeling. What if Harry had learned it? I'm one fo those that think Harry and Hermione are soul mates, and I wonder if Occlumency can work against a soul mate. I've read fanfics where Harry mastered Occlumency and still wasn't able to close his mind to Hermione, but I want to know what everybody else's opinion is. My personal opinion is that he wouldn't be able to keep her out(as if he'd want to). What do you think?
*Sinks into the Shadows*
Devourer of Essences ~ Soul Eater
*Appears from the Shadows*
Hmm. . . I don't know if this allowed, but do you think Occlumency could work against Hermione. As Snape said, Occlumency is "the magical defense of the mind against external penetration". Hermione seems to be able to easily know what Harry's thinking and feeling. What if Harry had learned it? I'm one fo those that think Harry and Hermione are soul mates, and I wonder if Occlumency can work against a soul mate. I've read fanfics where Harry mastered Occlumency and still wasn't able to close his mind to Hermione, but I want to know what everybody else's opinion is. My personal opinion is that he wouldn't be able to keep her out(as if he'd want to). What do you think?
*Sinks into the Shadows*
Devourer of Essences ~ Soul Eater
You know, in a way I think that it will work on nearly everyone except Hermione. IMO, they're way to close to have something like that stop what they have, and besides, it's Hermione. She'd be able to figure out if something was wrong anyways. She just... knows...
I agree, Hermione would still be able to read Harry's mind. But Snape also said that the mind was not like a book, what Hermione does is more like "knowing" not "reading," but I also think that Hermion may well know Occulmency and Legimency. Maybe i have read one too many fanfics, but I think she may have that ability, which might explain why she knows what Harry is thinking. (I know that statement goes against H/Hr slightly. And for the record I have been a H/Hr lover basically since book 1) I am of course, probably not right and will be chasticed harshly for it. But oh well!
Interesting question, Soul Eater.
But I happen to believe that Hermione knows what Harry is thinking/feeling because of something a bit more mundane than mind reading.
IMO, She's able to tell what he thinks/feels because she KNOWS him, because thru the years she has learned to translate things like his facial impressions, the tone of his voice, his breathing into emotions/thoughts.
It is the same principle as Harry's consience often speaking in Hermione's voice. She's not throwing ESP messages at him, but because he KNOWS her so well that he can actually predict how she's going to react to things.
It may be a mundane ability, but it is certainly beautiful.
Love,
Anasazi
-Proud Soldier of the Pumpkinpie Army-
But I happen to believe that Hermione knows what Harry is thinking/feeling because of something a bit more mundane than mind reading.
IMO, She's able to tell what he thinks/feels because she KNOWS him, because thru the years she has learned to translate things like his facial impressions, the tone of his voice, his breathing into emotions/thoughts.
It is the same principle as Harry's consience often speaking in Hermione's voice. She's not throwing ESP messages at him, but because he KNOWS her so well that he can actually predict how she's going to react to things.
It may be a mundane ability, but it is certainly beautiful.
Love,
Anasazi
-Proud Soldier of the Pumpkinpie Army-
*sighs happily* What a beautiful thought! 
Anyway, Harry is not going to be able to block out Hermione, not if he ripped his brain out with a crowbar! (Sorry for the painful imagery
)
As anasazi said, their link is not through magical means, but through personal means. I don't have any magical connection - I'm fourteen and either I missed my letter to Hogwarts in 2000 or I'm a plain ol' Muggle - to my sister Anna, but we can always tell what the other is thinking. We even finish each other's sentences.
Harry and Hermione ain't gonna stop doing that if and when Harry masters Occlumency.
Anyway, Harry is not going to be able to block out Hermione, not if he ripped his brain out with a crowbar! (Sorry for the painful imagery
)As anasazi said, their link is not through magical means, but through personal means. I don't have any magical connection - I'm fourteen and either I missed my letter to Hogwarts in 2000 or I'm a plain ol' Muggle
- to my sister Anna, but we can always tell what the other is thinking. We even finish each other's sentences.Harry and Hermione ain't gonna stop doing that if and when Harry masters Occlumency.
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