Ooh, good one SamanthaMarie! It makes perfect sense to me!

If he remembers the kiss, I would rather it lead to feelings eventually.

I just think that it will be better if H/Hr hook up later in the series. I just have a bad feeling that it will turn out bad if anything happens too soon.

If this doesn't make sense please excuse me(lack of sleep)

*Gasp* Absolutely! You're right, it makes perfect sense! *Goes to consult GOF, then returns, beaming* Yup! I totally agree with you! *Hands you a congratulatory butterbeer* Brilliant!
--Holly

Welcome, SamanthaMarie!

As much as I loved the kiss at GoF and pray that it is a sign of good things to come for H&Hr, I had NEVER considered Hermione did it because of jealousy! I think it's a very clever theory and hope that it is true!

This is a great excuse for me to reread that excerpt and give myself a little hope while I anxiously (and impatiently) await the release of OotP.

*Alohamora83*

QUOTE

Harry: "Hermione!" Hermione: "Harry-- you're a great wizard, you know..." Harry: (awkwardly) "I'm not as good as you." Hermione: "Me?  Books!  And cleverness!  There are more important things-- friendship and bravery and-- oh Harry-- be careful!"

great observation!!!!! man thats awesome...hahah again good job! :D

Hmmm, I'd never thought of that either! It's a good theory, though I too like to think that Hermione's motivations for kissing him were largely, if not completely, her strong feelings for him, whether they be purely platonic or something more.

And even though I had obviously noticed that the first sentence of the last GoF chapter begins with "When he looked back, even a month later..." I hadn't put the kiss into that context and realised that Harry must (hopefully) remember that and be thinking about it for a reason. And I am a firm believer that it is important or JK wouldn't have added the "...she did something she had never done before..." line. Also, I do really think that if Hermione had kissed Ron too, we would know about it

QUOTE

I seem to remember some bit about JKR saying she hadn't planned for Hermione to kiss Harry, that it just came out... hmm...

Ooh, Aeryn, I haven't heard this before! Do you think you could tell me exactly what she said?

I'd never though of that before.... but I do have some problems with the theory. For example, Ron says something in a "strangled sort of voice" and *then* Hermione scowls. Harry gets mentioned after the scowling because Fleur says goodbye to him. Honestly, I don't think it was jealousy on Hermione's part that caused the kiss...I think she was just pissed at Ron turning into goo because of some hot girl. I remember her getting mad at him for not wanting to go with some girl to the Yule Ball because of her looking like a troll. Hermione got defensive then, as well.

QUOTE

When he looked back, even a month later, Harry found he had only scattered memories of the next few days. It was as though he had been through too much to take in any more.                                                            --GoF, pg. 716 American Hardcover

What I find interesting is that through the whole ordeal of Voldemort's rising, he still remembers Hermione's kiss. A month later. With so much detail that he remembers that "she did something she had never done before". Before all of that it was all hugs, or arm grabbing <grin at PoA> or anything else I can't remember at the moment.

I guess it's interesting to me because I have a lot of guy friends that just a bit older than Harry is at this stage in the series and they barely have the attention span of a puppy sometimes and details are nonexistant. But, funny enough they always remember what girls say...in particular the girls they are swooning over...and they never realize that they are "head-over-heels" until much later.

And did anyone notice that the chapter's name in question is called "The Beginning"? Perhaps it doesn't only apply to the war that is sure to come...

nyd (dejamevivir) <who is tired and probably didn't make sense>

I seriously hadn't even thought of most of these theories. They are wonderful and really have gotten me thinking.

Hermione might have given him the kiss in reassurance that she would always be there for him, she wasn't going anywhere. Also, to express to him how brave she thought he had been throughout that entire school year.

Oh, on the subject of what Dumbledore should have told Harry a long time ago. If it is something really shocking, I'm pretty sure that Harry will box himself up and Hermione will be the only one who is able to get a straight answer out of him. I get this from the way it has been in the earlier books. So, that shows something!

All righty, time for me to leave.

Auf Wiedersehen

Hallie

You know, I never thought of it that way and it does sense. Even if it was only a friendship type of kiss, why didn't she kiss Ron, as well? They are friends, too. Harry would have remebered if she had kissed him, too, because it was "something she had never done before" **looks up towards heaven and prays** I'm an avid H/Hr shipper, in case you hadn't realised. BTW, I read in the paper a couple of years ago, now, that in an interview, J.K. said that "Harry will take more of an interest in Hermione". I didn't let it go for weeks after that, so I'm really hoping that it will happen, or I'll never live it down.

QUOTE

And did anyone notice that the chapter's name in question is called "The Beginning"? Perhaps it doesn't only apply to the war that is sure to come...

*GASP* I never thought of that before!!! And Im usually so observant!!! Wow... wow... wow... I think that is sooo possible. Add this to the pile...

-Sammie (who is freaking out at this thought!)

I think Hermione just stared to pluck up the courage to act on her feelings for Harry

QUOTE (SamanthaMarie @ Feb 27 2003, 06:17 AM)

QUOTE And did anyone notice that the chapter's name in question is called "The Beginning"? Perhaps it doesn't only apply to the war that is sure to come... *GASP* I never thought of that before!!! And Im usually so observant!!! Wow... wow... wow... I think that is sooo possible. Add this to the pile... -Sammie (who is freaking out at this thought!)

me neither maybe JKR is hinting at something in the 5th book.

I hope she was hinting at somthing. Then we'd be right Harry and Hermione forever. It's such a romantic notion. They flirt with eachother and are concerned about eachother. I haven't read any of the R/hr reeasons for getting together. I just thought H/Hr were the logical choice. But i'm straying from the topic. I hope she was hinting.

I have a question! where in the book does Fleur kiss Ron and Harry? I just reread the last chapter last night and I might have been a little sleepy and missed it but could you just tell me what page it is on in the American edition.... that'd be great,

oh and by the way I think that is something to think about after all Hermione could like Harry but I think it is very unlikely.

QUOTE (DmL_bRiTtAnY @ Mar 1 2003, 05:28 PM)

oh and by the way I think that is something to think about after all Hermione could like Harry but I think it is very unlikely.

What? I definitely disagree, I DESPISE it when people say that. There is chemistry going on with Harry and Hermione so don't say that. Hermione has loads of interest in Harry and they are in the "fraternizing" stage now. Not the oh... right straight to love. That's not a good relationship.

QUOTE (sorrentomoon @ Feb 28 2003, 12:10 PM)

I haven't read any of the R/hr reeasons for getting together.

I've never read any Hermione and Ron fanfiction I stay well clear of thoses

*sigh* What it comes down to for me is that Hermione won't like ROn the wya he likes her. He's not the right kind of person for her. Ron is far too tempramental and jealous. He doesn't really trust her in matters of the heart, and that is what is going to kill their relationship if it becomes romantic. A healthy relationship like that has to be built on trust, and I don't see enough of it.

As for kissing both Harry and Ron, it was right after the Second Task in GoF. She kissed them for saving her sister.

Darkstar

Throwing in my two Knuts worth (late, as usual!

This thread seems to have gone in several directions ... (thwaps self for not having posted earlier!) Anyway, if I'm reading the posts correctly ...

Starting point: Was the kiss at the end of GoF a sign of Hermione's jealousy over a French twit trying to move in on 'her' Harry? Or moving in on both 'her' boys?

I've always seen this as a possibility, although I do agree that there is a whole range of complex emotions and thoughts working in Hermione's mind at that stage.

Thinking about it, though, I don't really see it as a jealous reaction to a French twit. The "Fleur kiss" happened that morning (or whenever it was that they were waiting for the carriages to take them to the station), and the KISS happened as they were splitting up at Platform 9 and 3/4. So, I would tend to think that jealousy, per se was not a primary motivator.

Although I do agree that jealousy (on the part of Hermione) is somewhere, rearing its ugly head. There were three instances (if I recall correctly) where the "jealousy" angle came up ...

The first time was in the Great Hall when the Beaubaxtons and Durmstrang students arrived, and Ron said something about Hogwarts not making girls like that (Fleur), Harry disagreeing (while looking at Cho) and Hermione telling them to bring their eyes back where they belonged.

The second time was after the Second Task, when Fleur kissed both Harry and Ron for saving her sister. Although ... thinking back on that scenario, I keep wondering if it was jealousy or simply anger at Ron's blatant attempt to get some attention from Fleur.

Fleur had kissed Harry for saving her sister (she's French, isn't she, and they -- or so rumour has it-- are more demonstrative than the British, and Ron "moves" in (with 'a hopeful look' in his eyes), telling Fleur that he was part of the rescue. Fleur kisses him also, and that is where Hermione starts scowling.

(If I recall, Ron was 'expanding' on his role in the following days, making himself to be more than a hero than what he actually was, to be put down by Hermione's "What were you going to do? Snore at them?")

The third time was, of course, when Fleur kissed Harry on the cheek before going back to the Beaubaxton's carriage, where Ron said, "in a strangled voice," "It's very good already (referring to Fleur's English), at which Fleur smiled at him, and Hermione scowled.

Thinking about it all now (and after reading as much as I can stand all the R/H and H/H shipping debates) I can see the possibility of Hermione acting all jealous about Ron's hormonal impulses towards a 'hot chick.'

And then after the "Fleur incident" on the steps of Hogwarts, Viktor comes up to say good bye to Hermy-own-ninny -- and Ron stands there, "craning his neck, trying to see what the two are doing."

Hmmm ... looks like a set-up for the much-talked about, and anticipated R/Hr pairing in Book 5, doesn't it?

And yet ... and yet ... in the end, it is Harry that Hermione kisses, with the qualifying statement that "it was something she had never done before."

So, where do we stand in all these? Hermione having jealousy twinges about Ron's interest in a hot French chick, and then kissing Harry on the cheek before they split up for the summer ... is she trying to make Ron jealous? Or is it a "friendship" kiss, the sign of a deepening friendship kind of kiss ... the "I'll be there for you" kiss that has been discussed on the thread?

Personally, I lean towards the latter perception, rather than the "making Ron jealous" kind of thing.

Why? Because of the timing of Hermione's kiss ... it was made at the moment when Harry was leaving his friends (or his 'support group') to go alone with Uncle Vernon ... I've always felt that, at that precise moment, everything that had happened in that year (and maybe everything that had happened in the past four years) all came together for Hermione ... and all that she could think about was that her best friend was going to be facing dark times alone.

She was going to her parents; Ron was going to his family ... and Harry? Harry is going into the loving arms of ... Uncle Vernon, Aunt Petunia and Duddykins? (shudders)

I do believe that the theory posted on the thread, that the last chapter of GoF is a lead-in to OotP, is quite accurate -- and may well lead in to JKR's oft-quoted statement that "Harry will be taking more of an interest in Hermione" in Book 5 (OotP).

And I do like the idea that the opening scene that has been released for our intellectual and emotional titillation (someone lying on his back in the garden thinking) may well be Harry, thinking back on what happened in 4th Year and Hermione's kiss being an important part of his memories ... but what is [I[Hermione[/I] thinking?

Is she regretting her 'rash' action, worried that Harry may misinterpret that kiss? Or is she going to really confused herself about why she did it ... wondering whether it was a move out of spite and jealousy (the 'making Ron jealous' theory), or is she going to be acknowledging that Harry is beginning to mean a lot more to her than she has previously admitted?

Arrgggh! Hope that I'm not rambling ... this will be leading me into some sleepless nights ... and there's still something like four months until OotP comes out.

Oh well ... gotta go. RL is rearing its ugly head again ...

gil (now totally confused about where this post was originally going!

P.S. Before I forget ...

QUOTE

Originally posted by Lady Aeryn way back in January ... I seem to remember some bit about JKR saying she hadn't planned for Hermione to kiss Harry, that it just came out... hmm...

Did JKR say that? The reason I'm asking is that I used that scenario or line in the first ever fan-fic I wrote (Writer's Block over at Astronomy Tower) ... and couldn't remember now whether I read it somewhere and incorporated it into my fic, or whether it came from my (then) fertile imagination.

Anyway ... secondly, Happy Birthday, Lady Aeryn! May the Force be with you. Always.

I think that Harry was a little shocked when Hermione kissed him. But I dont think he minded My opinion is that Harry cares for Hermione a lot, but he knows ron likes her. I heard that J.K. is going to have ron and hermione date, although I don't think it will work out. I'm hoping that J.K. decides to put Harry and Hermone together!

And if you look closely, it shows that Harry is suddenly much more perky after Hermione kisses him.. hmm.. maybe that's hinting at something.


~Av

Doesn't he think about why Hermione kissed him? Wasn't that the first kiss he's ever gotten from a girl? Ron just likes Hermione's looks not her real self, opposedly for Harry, he understands her and doesn't mind her. And anyway, I don't think there will be any specific relationship developing with Hermione and Ron. They are going to be only 17 when the book series end and of course, I'm sure by the looks of it, Rowling is putting Hermione with Harry. Because she just said that there's chemistry between Ron and Hermione, as for H/Hr, she said Harry NEEDS her desperately. Isn't that something?

In the end, I don't think Rowling is going to put a happy, oh happily ever after ending. I'm certain she's going to "kill" one of the three, either Hermione, Harry or Ron. (hopefully the weasel) I don't really expect much romance in the next 3 books, yes, there is chemistry but they are really quite young and Voldie? I'm sure they have to defeat Voldie to start their own love life, don't they?

Hello, people! Um, must I remind you all that Hermione did have feelings for that Krum guy? Not to mention, I don't think she seemed all that interseted in Harry. She got a bit jealous when Ron went after Fleur and Ron concluded those feelings when he and Hermione fought about her thing with Krum[QUOTE]
"Hermione, Neville's right....you ARE a girl!"
Hello, where has Ron been? I'm not sayin that your ideas are bad, becuase Harry and Hermione do make a good couple, but I think JK has someone else planned for Harry. Not Fluer, she liked Ron's oldest brother. I think she kissed Harry becuase he had saved her sister and all. And not Cho for Harry. No, not Cho. Someone new perhaps. I think Hermione's kiss was purely frienly. Nothin more. I think she has a thing for Ron, hence their constant silly arguments and (if you read between the lines) the hidden feelings. But I wouldn't mind actually seeing Hermione and Harry get together.....

Hello all. i have taken the liberty, for all those who have forgotten, to tell you (the disbelievers of H/Hr) about the major loop hole in the "ships" that are currently being debated from GoF.

I don't know if anyone remembers, so i'm just gonna post this theory for the sake of it, and to remind anyone who forgo. J.K. Rowling has very clearly stated before not to read to much into the love interests in book 4, as they all fall for "Mr. or Ms. Wrong". Therefore, Hermione is Ron's "ms. wrong", Cho is harry's ms. wrong, Krum is hermione's "mr. wrong". that means, theoretically, that cho and krum are out of the picture. also, that means that ron has fallen for the wrong person (hermione), and will end up with someone else. That also means that this situation leaves harry and hermione open for each other.

it's all up to J.K. Rowling in the end, but remember, behind all the mis-matched couples, there is indeed some that shall survive, and looking at the evidence behind H/Hr, i'm quite sure that it will be the end result. Now, don't get me wrong, it may take a while for them to realize what person is right for them, so until they do, R/Hr/Krum will be around, and H/C. but in the end it's H/Hr.

that's my little rant.

and to stay on topic, i think harry would remember a kiss, out of friendship or of love, (either one he'll still think about it), that his best friend gave him, and it would likely spur some thoughts as to if he had been thinking of her incorrectly before, and maybe he'll see her in a new light and "develop more of an interest in his pal hermione."

~Av

Hi, I'm new here, and I love H/H!!! I love Ron as well, I just don't think he and Hermione are good for each other. Anywhoo, getting to this topic. Yes, I believe that kiss DID mean something, and getting jealous over Fleur is something Hermione would most liekly do. She wasn't happy with her all through book four. I think the kiss was meant to open Harry's eyes.

someone said:

QUOTE

Hello, people! Um, must I remind you all that Hermione did have feelings for that Krum guy?

um, may you remind us where it says that she had feelings for him in the canon, and please, while youre reminding us of that...

QUOTE

Not to mention, I don't think she seemed all that interseted in Harry.

perhaps she wasnt so "interseted" in harry, but i think she was fairly interested. go back and read the yule ball chapter again. hermione is constantly grinning at harry and sharing little glances.

and in response to both quotes, after the 2nd task, id like to remind you that hermione was paying too much attention to cheering harry on to even notice krum trying to talk to her.

and lest we forget, krum did say that "herm-oh-ninny" talks about harry an awful lot.

yes, so please, im intrigued. do tell, where is it mentioned hermione has more feelings for krum than harry?

just wondering over here.

okay people. listen up. This harry/Hermione thing i have never EVER thought about before. I think it's a wonderful topic. but i also think you're getting your hopes up. Harry still has eyes for Cho, and I think that in book 4, Mrs. Rowling was trying to get across a point that Ron and Hermione were a bit jealous, hence all those times when she got stiff around Fluer and he a bit snippy about Krum. But i agree....harry and hermione would make a nice couple if they were properly matched together.

Mod Note: A. Person- in the future please try and stay on topic. This thread is figuring out what the kiss means, not saying that Harry likes Cho, etc.

Back on topic here, Vanillapuf, I agree with you. However, Krum did choose Hermione as the thing he'd miss the most. However, there isn't solid evidence that Hermione even likes him back. I think that Hermione was just flattered that someone that others found attractive has asked her out, and jumped to the opertunity to show that she could land a good guy if she wanted to.

J.K.R. makes a point of being very secretive about Hermione's opinions, that's why i believe that it could be possible for H/Hr to happen. Also, if R/Hr happened it would be too cliche, but if H/Hr happened it would be totally unexpected, because r/hr was the obvious couple. but that's sort of off topic, the topic here is the kiss at the end of GoF.

Now, i know that the kiss was very likely not out of romantic feelings. But, if you look at the events that happen in GoF it seems sort of suspicious. Now, i might have let it slip, except for the words "she did something she had never done before".. that makes me wonder why all of a sudden she's kissing him on the cheek. Also, it seems just a little bit odd that she's doing something like that, out in the open, after the Rita Skeeter articles about her and harry being "steady boyfriend and girlfriend". It would seem stupid, as she'd appear to have feelings for him...

anyway, i don't know what it means, but it certainly is leading up to something.

ok.. i hope i made sense here..

~Av

Hon Rosie Woodsorrel I agree with you whole-heartedly! Yes that kiss did look like it was leading up to something and you know J.K Rowling she always puts little clues that don't give to much away. And those little clues always lead up to something 'big'.
Take that Wormtail business for a start.

Okay I just wanted to put my 2 cents in.

And remember H/H 4EVA!!!

True true true
in my opinion i rekon Hermione DOES like harryand the kiss was a sign of deepening frendship

who always argues with hermione??? ron
who tried to become frends again with hermione after the quidditch match??? harry
who stopped harry and hermiones conversation by saying scabbers wouldve missed the food when he doesnt really care about scab(wormtail)??? ron
who wanted to save hermione from the troll? harry



btw sorry if im going off topic but it still iz h/hr,

u know in ps/ss hermione goes on about logic not being important and bravery and stuff, she goes

"friendship and braveryand oh harry---be careful!!"

lemmetry to finish the --- off

oh harry, i love u so much so be careful!!! ummm
...... sorry if ive been a bore

When, at the end when Hermione kisses Harry on the cheek I don't get ther part where it says 'she did something she never done before' and kissed him on the check. What was the 'thing Hermione has never done before'? I Don't get it!!

Well, I think that JKR meant that Hermione never kissed Harry on the cheek before.

i think the hermione and harry fan [above] is correct.

QUOTE (Hollywoodgurl @ May 4 2003, 07:40 PM)

[COLOR=purple] When, at the end when Hermione kisses Harry on the cheek I don't get ther part where it says 'she did something she never done before' and kissed him on the check. What was the 'thing she has never done before'? I Don't get it!!

Kissing his cheek was the thing she'd never done before. And it was significant enough to have him take note of the event, infact aside from Lily, that was most likely the first kiss he had ever recieved

That might have been the first kiss he had ever recieved INCLUDING Lily, if you stop to think about it...

Well, I'm pretty sure that Lily would have kissed him. What mother doesn't smother her new baby in kisses? Especially if she had the notion that she could die at any moment.

Now, the first kiss he received, "technically" that goes to Fleur b/c she kissed him after the second task for saving Gabrielle. But that was just out of gratitude and I won't count it as anything more than that.

But the first kiss he received from someone he cares about? That honor now goes to Hermione. YAY!!

The first kiss that *he* remembers, as I am sure, his mother and father both kissed him as a baby.

Oops! Forgot about Fleur. Hmmm, I was thinking it was Hermione that gave him the first kiss he remembered....oh well...lost opportunity.

its also first kiss from someone who isnt part-veela and a terrible flirt

QUOTE (Starlight623 @ May 5 2003, 10:27 AM)

Well, I'm pretty sure that Lily would have kissed him. What mother doesn't smother her new baby in kisses? Especially if she had the notion that she could die at any moment. Now, the first kiss he received, "technically" that goes to Fleur b/c she kissed him after the second task for saving Gabrielle. But that was just out of gratitude and I won't count it as anything more than that. But the first kiss he received from someone he cares about? That honor now goes to Hermione. YAY!!

actually, his first kiss was from the three Griffindor chasers, Katie, Alicia, and Angelina. In the third book, they kissed him after he caught the snitch during a game of Quidditch. I pay way to much attention to details like that ^^()

Good catch, Tone! Hmm, first Katie, Alicia, and Angelina, then Fleur, then Hermione ... Goodness, our Harry is getting around! Just kidding!!

But the first kiss he received that left him thinking about it was Hermione's. So what does that say?

Here's to first kisses and true love !!

Stop talking about Fluer's kiss! Hermione's kiss is much more important! (and the topic of this thread) The only reason Fluer and the Three kissed him was out of gratitude! Ahhhhhhhh!!!!!!!!! Hermione Harry!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

First kiss and who kiss. What more important? of course 'who' and all of them 'Hermione' most important H/H
And ' thing she has never done before' I think it mean " feeling she never feel before " too.

QUOTE

Good catch, Tone! Hmm, first Katie, Alicia, and Angelina, then Fleur, then Hermione ... Goodness, our Harry is getting around! Just kidding!!

^^^That was very funny.^^^

When JK Rowling wrote 'she did something she had never done before' she meant Hermione kissed Harry on the cheek and she had never done that before.


SweetSolitude1377

Ahh... it seems the great intelligent ones who have replied before me have already answered... it would be a little redundant to answer as well wouldn't it?



I agree with SweetSolitude... that was quite funny.

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