pyropinkmonkey12
Jan 4 2004, 09:52 PM
For me, my friend who loves Tom Felton and Draco Malfoy, showed our group of friends this fanfiction, and she was all sad about Draco's death at the end. I read a bit of it, thought it was so idiotic, but that night I finished it. It started out H/G, and ended D/G, and that just got me hooked!!
It funny, I remember that the first time I read it, I thought the H/G bits were cute. But now, I just think it's annoying and in the way of the D/G!!!!
(Mods, forgive if this topic is somewhere else!)
PPM12
MOD NOTES:
THREAD INDEX - the following members' stories appear on thread page #:
Page 1 =>pyropinkmonkey12,sydney118, EvilRyokoJesse, HPcrazed182, Cursed4Life, nashire, ~*~Dracos Girl~*~, essential42
Page 2 =>LiLbitOfLoNeLiNEss, Fedilia, JamieLou, guacamole, . Piper . , Hermione Cosplayer, waffleprincess, wee_grim, Ekaterina, jetso, kazte, Hpfreak06, Szaranea
Page 3 =>Luminous, ShatteredSilence, Nutcrazical, Kayters, Incognito, Zilver Faerie, mona_punk, gypsybaby21, Pumpkin Kisses
~Sandra/Facade 7/17/04
6Jan It's all right, read my note in the 3rd post re moving this from Prof Binn's Library to D/G shipping. ~gal-texter
18Feb This thread has already gathered 20+ replies. I suppose this is a good time to return it to the Library. To help decongest the D/G shipping forum, and to attract more visitors to the Library and sections nearby. ~gal-texter
Nousia
Jan 5 2004, 03:21 PM
You're right. This actually should go in the Draco/Ginny forum - not the Professor Binns' Library forum. Oh well - this will probably be moved soon.
gal-texter
Jan 5 2004, 04:09 PM
I've been watching this thread for a while. Not because it's in the wrong forum (Prof Binn's Library); I did put the H/H equivalent in the Library. But I fear not too many D/G-ers come here. This thread has been here for a day, but no one has replied to the question yet. I'll move this to D/G. When it gets enough replies, I'll move it back here in Prof. Binn's. I'd like to decongest the shipping forums as much as possible, and to call attention to Prof. Binn's.
All the same, thanks for the help, Nitya. As usual.

~Pen
sydney118
Jan 5 2004, 04:43 PM
The first time I encountered D/G was as a sideship in a H/Hr story. I immediately liked the pairing and thought it was perfect. I'm not an avid D/G reader, as I prefer H/Hr and L/J, but I do enjoy reading about them as sideships. I don't really like Draco much in the books, but in fanon he's a pretty cool guy.
RyokoJesse
Jan 5 2004, 05:09 PM
yeah, the Draco in canon and fanon dont seem to be the same person many times. More like brothers. But one's better-looking, hahah.

I first found out abotu D/G when I was looking through fanfiction for H/Hr on ff.net, and was like, "Hey, that's interesting." And because I'm a curious person ahd to read it.

the first one I can remember was Lessons of the Heart.
~Ryoko~
Sakura1287
Jan 6 2004, 09:42 AM
| QUOTE |
| the first one I can remember was Lessons of the Heart. |
That was among the first I read. Actually my very first one was Wrongfully Accused.
But I agree that canon and fanon Draco are two very different people. But it's funny... dispite their differences, so many of us D/Gers still have optimistic faith in the couple in canon.

XTina
HPcrazed182
Jan 7 2004, 05:05 PM
I'm not exactly how or when, but I think it happened like this.
I saw the ship. I got intrigued, because I know that at the time I still thought Draco was an evil person (*blushes* I know, I know. What a sinner.)
Well I started reading D/G & I got hooked.
Cursed4Life
Jan 7 2004, 05:27 PM
At first, I was a no shipper fan; just loved reading about Draco.

But then, someone on this Tom board that I go to plagerized (though I didn't know it) the story Wickedly Delicious by Black Pearl.(like in December of 2002) Of course I practically read every thing posted and it pulled me into the D/G love out there.
nashire
Jan 8 2004, 02:14 PM
I fell in love with D/G almost instantly when I started to read fanfiction..I spent two days just reading Cassandra Claire's Draco Dormiens and Draco Sinister. When I read the first scene with Draco and Ginny together I just fell in love with that couple and soon after that I started to read more D/G ..and here I am
Sakura1287
Jan 8 2004, 02:54 PM
| QUOTE |
| But then, someone on this Tom board that I go to plagerized (though I didn't know it) the story Wickedly Delicious by Black Pearl.(like in December of 2002) Of course I practically read every thing posted and it pulled me into the D/G love out there. |
I was reading that story too, at FFN, and she took forever to update. Then she posted a chapter explaining what happened and gave a link to the board where the offender was. You were at the board where it got plagerized? Interesting... funny how small of a world fandom is.

XTina
~*~Dracos Girl~*~
Jan 8 2004, 04:30 PM
| QUOTE |
| I fell in love with D/G almost instantly when I started to read fanfiction..I spent two days just reading Cassandra Claire's Draco Dormiens and Draco Sinister. When I read the first scene with Draco and Ginny together I just fell in love with that couple and soon after that I started to read more D/G ..and here I am |
that what happened to me, but not with Cassandra Claire's Draco Dormiens and Draco Sinister i forget the one i was reading that got me hocked but it was at ff.net but i did read Cassandra Claire's Draco Dormiens and Draco Sinister and now im reading Draco Veritas. So when i joined the forums here and it had D/G i feel in love with them even more
Cursed4Life
Jan 8 2004, 04:54 PM
| QUOTE |
| Then she posted a chapter explaining what happened and gave a link to the board where the offender was. You were at the board where it got plagerized? Interesting... funny how small of a world fandom is. |
lol yea. I was even friends with her too (the plagerizer). Her user name was Dracos My Baby (I loved her avatar she had when she posted that fic! haha) and her name was Cori. She did feel really sorry though.. The board is actually still pretty active. Like 1,608 members. Ever since I started posting about D/G in the General Discussion forum people just started writing about them non-stop so I felt proud that I started a trend.

If you want the link, just ask!
Sakura1287
Jan 8 2004, 05:03 PM
| QUOTE |
| If you want the link, just ask! |

*asking*
She felt bad? Well then.. why did she do it in the first place? I never really understood plagerizing to that extreme. How fulfilling is it to get reviews on something you didn't write? Wouldn't you feel remorseful every time you saw "You're an awesome writer" in a review?
XTina
Cursed4Life
Jan 10 2004, 10:51 AM
Just click
here. I really don't know. Maybe they just want to be special..? *shrug*
essential42
Jan 11 2004, 02:23 PM
I remember the first time I read a fanfic, it was some persons version of The Order Of Pheonix, than all the rest was a chain reaction I guess... I do remember that I absolutely loved H/D but now I love G/D, I have no clue what I thought about H/D though...
InsipidNight
Jan 11 2004, 04:12 PM
Hmm...ah, I don't remember how I fell in love with D/G...*thinks back through the years* It was definetly from a fanfic, I can tell you that...Then I just kept reading more and more D/G..even more than H/Hr *gasp* Hahah. But D/G is my favorite ship!
Fedilia
Jan 13 2004, 10:38 AM
Let me recall...Hmm. I was reading CoS for the first time, and I kinda like the idea of HG...but when I read the valentine scene, and zapped! I thought of DG, which I think is better. And I just went to ff.net to search for more DG fics. LOL. I'm addicted to DG.
//fedilia
JamieLou
Jan 14 2004, 07:19 PM
Ik the first fic I ever read was Hr/Percy..... ik ik... But then a friend of mine recommended draco/ginny... and I couldn't stop reading them! It's just such an amazing forbidden ship... ik one of the first I read was also lessons of the heart, and choosing...
guacamole
Jan 16 2004, 03:58 PM
I owe it all to Serpents Bride.
I didn't ship back then. So i was browsing through AT when the title Serpents Bride caught my attention.
Ladies and gentlemen, from then on, I was HOOKED.
. Piper .
Jan 16 2004, 05:36 PM
It's not very exciting. I was just lurking at another board, and there was a Draco/Ginny thread. The possibility of these two hadn't even entered my mind. Immediately I was blown away by the complex romance this two characters would have. I think that was around last April. Been a fan ever since.
Hermione Cosplayer
Jan 18 2004, 06:32 PM
If there is going to be a Draco redemption, I certainly see a huge Draco/Ginny possibility. I also see Neville growing up, losing the babyfat, becoming one heck of a warrier next school year (not that he isn't already) and sweeping Ginny off her feet.
Since he is only just really starting to get his act together (new wand that really suits his own style...that kind of thing), he might also be a good one for JKR to kill off for a sense of drama.
I'm a huge Hermione/Harry shipper and honestly, I think that unless he gets together with someone like Luna quickly, Ron to the Dark side is after Hermione and Harry getting together is more likely than a Draco redemption....but that's just my opinion.
waffleprincess
Jan 22 2004, 05:31 PM
i can't see Draco and Ginny getting together in the books... i think that the reason we have placed them together in our community is because Ginny is an easy character to manipulate and change because in the books she is always on the side lines so we can give her a whole new personality.
wee_grim
Jan 26 2004, 06:32 AM
ginny and draco are great together! they're both complex and attractive characters. i don't think it will happen in the books... but i think that draco is the only boy who "deserves" ginny because the others are either too serious or too quiet for her. ginny and draco would live a great, stormy passion!
Ekaterina
Jan 27 2004, 11:44 PM
I've always been a D/G supporter. I think it's because the first Harry Potter fanfiction I ever read was D/G and ever since then I've been hooked! Not to mention there are so many good D/G fics out there!
jetso
Feb 3 2004, 07:20 AM
| QUOTE |
| i think that the reason we have placed them together in our community is because Ginny is an easy character to manipulate and change because in the books she is always on the side lines so we can give her a whole new personality. |
Nothing wrong with that. It's all good fun, as Rowling says. Though I have to say, if one is good enough at character development one can do anything with anyone in fanon, and believably too.
Like D/G mainly for the R&J connotations. I know they're not, at least, Draco would probably kill for her instead of dying for her, but that's close enough.
First encountered in Cassandra Claire's fic. Wasn't expecting it, but was rooting for H/Hr all the way, so was glad Draco found someone, of course, in her fic things are never that simple (waiting for the next chapter.)
But, by that time, I found the rest of the D/G fandom. And am happy... there is a certain element of bodice-ripping that is distinctly attractive.
Hpfreak06
Feb 5 2004, 03:08 PM
Well i first got hooked when I just heard of the idea of Draco and Ginny being together in the end. I mean they were the last people i would think would get together, but after goin on some of the Draco and Ginny threads, it made me a beliver and I support them 100%. I think they are just meant for each other. Just like H/hr and R/L
Szaranea
Feb 15 2004, 09:10 AM
I read Draco Sinister, which was the second fanfic for me. (Guess what the first was: if you though Draco Dormiens, then you were right). I realized midway DV, that I didn't really like the story, but got hooked on D/G.
I just realized that I lied when I wrote that DS was my second fanfic to read: because I completely forgot the brief L/J period before that.
Anyway, I get all

mushy

when I even hear "D/G" (that's why I forbid my friend Silver to call two of her male friends, whose initials are D and G such, because the're a little weird and "tainted" my fanatistic D/G way of life. Not that I'm bossy or anything, but what if somebody went around calling two weirdos D and G? Okay, forget it)
Cheers, Ri
btw:
katze, are you aware what your name means in English? You probably are, so it's a stupid question.
Sakura1287
Feb 15 2004, 12:19 PM
| QUOTE |
| btw: katze, are you aware what your name means in English? You probably are, so it's a stupid question. |
What's it mean?
Kristina
kazte
Feb 15 2004, 02:33 PM
I don't know!, but it's not ka
tze, it's ka
zte
bye
~Ana
MOD NOTE: Allright, that was a good question. My sincere thanks for not pursuing it any further than needed.
You may continue discussing your usernames in another thread.
Let's bring this discussion back to "how you came to support D/G", please. For the benefit of other readers. Thank you.
~gal-texter 18Feb
Luminous
Feb 21 2004, 02:19 PM
The first ever fic that I read that was Draco/Ginny was called "Lyin' Eyes" by catseye9 over at FictionAlley. It's still not finished...but...anyway. After that, I was kind of unsure if I liked the pairing or not so I went in search of some really good D/G fics. I found a fic called "The Serpent's Bride" after reading many a not-so-satisfying D/G fic...and that sealed the deal for me. I was completely in love.
100% head-over-heels in love! And I still am. I'm proud to say that I'm a D/Ger and I wouldn't have it any other way! I do have other ships, and I ship Ginny with Harry, but D/G will alawys be my OTP!
ShatteredSilence
Feb 29 2004, 02:54 PM
I started off a H/Hr shipper, but after a while, I got really bored of the couple, mostly because I don't like Harry that much!

I always liked Draco, so I found some D/Hr fics, but for some reason it seemed wrong. I then came across D/G in a H/Hr story, and I fell in love. I really abandoned H/Hr for D/G, but I still like seeing them in stories.
Nutcrazical
Mar 4 2004, 04:17 PM
After reading OotP, I got on a GottaReadAnythingHP mood. Of course, "anything HP" includes fanfiction. So I looked afound fanfiction.net, and found a story summary I thought interesting... the story was about Draco being a teacher at Hogwarts on Ginny's 7th year. The fic was crappy - didn't even finish reading it - but while I looked at the reviews for it, I saw this girl claiming the Fic Author had stolen her idea on something. So, I went and read that girl's fic and I
loved it.
Thus my D/G obsession began.
Kayters
Mar 7 2004, 01:05 PM
I really don't remember what got me to like it, or why..or when...all I know is that I read a fanfic, and I liked the idea of a rags to riches thing for Ginny...and became a big fan of D/G.
Incognito
Mar 21 2004, 03:14 PM
I was originally a H/G shipper and a R/Hr shipper too (I know, I know - you all hate me).
I don't know if I can pin-point the moment when I started liking stories like "All You Need is Love" bye Mocha Butterfly and "Unforgiven" by Lady Rhiyana. In fact, I think I started getting into D/Hr first. I mean, she's a mudblood and he's a pureblood: sizzle! I read some pretty good D/Hr fics and then I sumbled upon some D/G stories (as mentioned above). There was so few of them though and I thought that they must not be very good, but wowzers was I WRONG! Such fire and ice! They are just so hot together.
But I think when I started liking Draco is when I saw Tom Felton - cute lil bugger (no I don't think he's hot, but I think he will become hot, like Daniel Radcliffe). And I thought him and shy lil Ginny would be perfect. He's so harsh and she's so caring - polar opposites. And then after OotP I decided: I want them together!
I'm such a romantic at heart!
Zilver Faerie
Apr 26 2004, 03:31 PM
I remember which fanfic was my first D/G fanfic but I have no idea which site it was posted on

It was the sequl to "Serpent's Bride" (written by Reiko Naoe) that was written by Reiko Naoe's beta Violet Jersey. Unfortunatley I forgot the title but its about Ginny giving a "suprise" gift to Draco on his birthday. I also gave her a lot of trouble asking her about Serpent's Bride
mona_punk
May 21 2004, 01:02 AM
I first got hooked, when I was still an orange crusher and I am finding a really good fanfic(h/g) because NONe of the fanfics I have found are worth it, I found a D/G/H triangle the fics name is Always Use to Protection by ifitaintbroke88, I really love jealous!Draco so after I read it I searched for more. Then that's the reason I found Portkey. I was really NOT a fan of Draco Malfoy and Tom Felton then, the real reason why I become a Tom Fanatic is because of D/g. . . and as everybody says: and the rest is history. . .
gypsybaby21
May 23 2004, 04:40 AM
After reading books one through three I was kind of already leaning towards a D/G pairing just because of the basic facts JK had presented. The hatred both Weasley's and Malfoy's have towards each other is intense (or so I assumed it to be extremely so, perhaps more than it really is) and when I'm talking intense I mean it's the most pure hatred you could ever encounter. As in that can’t even look at each other, let alone talk to each other (even though Draco’s always antagonizing Ron). They hate each other so much that when they accidentally look at each other they want to run to the other side of the room and vomit, or with one glance at them you want to just kill the person. I probably put more hate into it instead of the competition that has probably more to do with it.
The Weasley’s and Malfoy’s are both pure bloods and both families have a family tree that can be traced back generations. Considering how the Malfoy’s are, rich and all, they could possibly just feel threatened by the fact that the Weasley’s have the power to trace their family tree back just as far as they can. Being a pure blood is obviously very important to Malfoy’s. It’s kind of like the ‘mines bigger than yours’ argument. Just a thought anyhow…
The fact that both families hate each other and that Ginny is the only girl in the Weasley family with a bit of an attitude, I was really going for D/G. Aside from Chamber of Secrets (this book is what really got me to notice Ginny. I was like 'whoa, where did she come from?' I mean she was such a minor, even though she was a Weasley, character that until the second book Ginny Weasley hadn't even entered my mind as important and all of a sudden it was like 'BOOM! She's there…make note of it.’ You know?) When I read the fourth book however, I wasn't for the pairing as much. Not really sure why, it could be because the fourth book kind of bored me in more than a few parts (it's a good book and all, don't get me wrong).
Anyhow, I already knew about fan fiction because I'd been writing a good amount of it for the author L.J. Smith (supernatural/paranormal writer. Most popular works: The Vampire Diaries, The Secret Circle, and The Night World). I definitely recommend reading her books by the way! So in between book four I decided I needed a break from it.
That was when I’d decided to see if Harry Potter was on FF.net because I was such a huge L.J. Smith fan that I really didn’t pay much attention to anything else, well with an occasional movie fic on the side. No surprise here, there was a section and so I did a fic search. The first fan fiction that just made me fall head over heels in love with the idea of D/G was ‘The Weasel and The Kneazle’. Talk about a writer! *Swipes brow* in this story Davesmom gave me chills (not throughout the whole story, but with certain scenes)! In my opinion, I thought she’d been damn near perfect to keeping Ginny and Draco in character. Now I said ‘damn near’ as in ‘in my opinion’ I don’t think anyone can keep G/D, or really any character for that matter, IN character for the main reason that the fan fiction writer didn’t write the original characters. Not to mention the whole idea of Draco being with Ginny is so completely out of character for both of them to begin with.
I also think a big part of what makes D/G so tempting (doesn’t seem like a good enough word, maybe ‘luring’, ‘seducing’, ‘enchanting’?) is that because of the feud between families it’s kind of forbidden and everyone knows how ‘forbidden fruit’ is. Adam and Eve for example (I won’t go into it, it was just an example). Basically since it’s not allowed it makes that forbidden ship all the more pleasing to people.
It puts excitement into it and allows a main plot no matter how many times it’s repeated, even though the non-original plot lines that get written tend to get eyes rolled at especially by hardcore fan fiction lovers who had started off from the beginning when the first books of HP came out. (It’s good to remember that if someone is writing a non-original plot line there’s a good chance that person is new to the fan fiction world and wanted for a long time to write about that. It’s kind of referring to people’s pet peeves on over usage of plotlines…getting off topic again. No surprise there), to still manage to hold it.
Now I hope this author won’t get upset (I seriously doubt that she will considering everything I’m going to say about her is a compliment)…Aurora North’s story ‘Paid in Full’… before I read this I had read a lot of similar stories, but over usage of plot lines is not one of my pet peeves, especially when it’s good (and PiF is beyond the term good—good doesn’t even to qualify for a decent description of it), so I read it. I mean how could you not read something that was so wonderfully written just because it wasn’t an original plot? Unoriginal plots still hold that excitement about D/G pairings for me. Anyhow, when I read the first chapter I could instantly feel anticipation being provoked. It literally surrounded the story. I thought so anyway.
Maybe it’s just me, but when I go into a D/G story and as I’m reading the first chapter, I get really happy and over enthusiastic about it so when it’s not a very good first chapter I get a little disappointed but continue to give it a chance and read the next one. I love it when the first chapter of a story is so awesome that you’re just sweating with bullets to get to the next part, for example ‘Paid in Full’. Damn, that story is good!
A page and a half later…*rolls eyes*
I think I’ve rambled enough and hopefully I didn’t confuse anyone. I don’t know if I really even answered the question because I was getting off topic too much. Anyhow, there are my more than two cents. ~Aya
Pumpkin Kisses
Jun 1 2004, 08:48 PM
Hmm..I must have discovered D/G after I started reading fanfic's and I noticed they were all different ships. Eh, boring I know...
I think there's a certain spark with Draco and Ginny. Both of them have such a temper, so that's why I can see Ginny as being one of the rare to get under Draco's skin.
But Ginny also has the sweet nurturing side also. Which Draco desperately needs. I think that's why they balance each other out so well.
-Roxy
Turtle The Insane Superstar
Aug 12 2004, 09:29 PM
hmmm well when i frist came to PK i didn't really ship D/G cause i never really read any fanfiction with them. I was reading a H/Hr one and it had a little backround D/G and i thought it was rather cute... then i read "My Beloved Ferret" by the loffy Kristina (Sakura1287) and after that i supported D/G. 8sigh* i love that fic and advise EVERY one to read it!
Court
virtuososvision
Aug 13 2004, 01:24 AM
My story is so much bland compared to everyone elses.
I started off liking Draco/Ginny from a friend, Kristina. I was never really a big fan of fanfiction since I really didn't know it was out there... But, I was chatting with Tina about HarryPotter. That's when the converstaion moved from the BOOK itself to the SHIPS... She brought up Ginny, who is by far one of my favorite characters (she's so left out from the family and such a staple in the second book) I told her how I felt about Ginny and we agreed in many ways. Then Draco came into the picture and it didn't click at first until I relized that, to put it frankly, It just works. Period. Ginny rebels, Draco has a love interest and everything is good. I've tried explaining it to others and they don't get it. I think that you either really need to love Draco's character or Ginny's Character to dig this ship... (I like both so this ship is Grrrreat!) She got me into this site... and I've liked the ship ever since. I read D/G fanfiction and all that jazz now! LoL (I suddenly feel like something was wrong with me and then I went through therapy and got better...Like I went to the AA... "Hi, My name is Karly and I ship D/G"...wow that was OFF TOPIC) Anyway, If JKR takes it up or doesn't...It still works and could be a possibility. Anyway, That's my two cents.
Onylin
Jan 5 2005, 06:43 PM
I got hooked after reading Evelynn Michelle Malfoy's "The Alliance" on fanfiction.net. I started reading it and I couldn't stop! At the beginning I was thinking Draco Malfoy and Ginny Weasley. This couldn't get anymore stupid and impossible! After getting through the first couple chapters, I was totally hooked, and I couldn't look at another Harry/Ginny fic without feeling that it was completely wrong. Got some good writers out there...
hpchik
Mar 23 2005, 12:33 PM

I first loved the idea of D/G when I was reading a fan-fic on them and while reading it was like 'wow, thats cool!' Also, that whole romeo and juliet thing with them as always good.
drunkendreams
Mar 29 2005, 08:04 PM
*jumps into the bandwagon*
I think the first time D/G was injected into my mind was when I read Carole's A Sirius Change,I thought as a sideship it was preetttty good.
After reading the same type of ship ( h/hr) it kind of got routine,cliched and what the hell, I"ll try D/G it was a fresh start.Now, it's just matter of finding good D/Gs now.
LLLLdude aka Babieboi
Apr 4 2005, 12:00 PM
I wanted to be a shipper of at least 3 couples...and despite the fact that I despise Ginny (the character, not Bonnie Wright), I was just thinking of how Draco and Ginny would make a great couple. It's like Romeo and Juliet!! But I don't really like Ginny still...it's just the other option, not much couples left.
saturn keelmar
Apr 5 2005, 10:08 PM
Actually, I saw a cute fic on Dark Mark about D/G. That's how I became a D/Ger. When that was..... only God knows....
luff,
Seph
artisticmaster
Jun 3 2005, 03:03 PM
I'm not quite sure when I first started to sail the D/G ship. (although H/Hr will always be my main ship

)When I first read fanfiction, the first one I read was an avid D/G shipper, and they presented their story in a way that I could understand. So even though I still don't like Draco all that much, I still like reading this ship.
Lodella
Feb 15 2009, 08:20 PM
My story isn't too orginal. I was reading Draco Sinister and absolutely loved the chemistry between Ginny and Draco... By the time I finished the trilogy I was completely hooked on that couple. For a while I was reading fics with them on Russian (my native language), but there wasn't much of a good stuff with them...
Then, thankfully, I stumbled upon dracoandginny.com and Portkey, what with all the awesome stories about D/G

So yeah, those too websites are my home and heaven
Draco and Ginny are the best couple ever
moogle
Feb 16 2009, 04:53 PM
Sounds like Draco Sinister was something that got a lot of us hooked. I won't deny that she wrote the chemistry between those characters darn fantastically.
Portkey is definitely my heaven for D/G fics, but I've found a lot of jewels hidden in D&G.com. I think I'll have to get off my lazy behind and start searching there more.
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