After a traumatic encounter with a Ron/Hermione shipping essay on sugarquill.net, I decided I wanted to counter all the nonsensical reasons in that essay (which nearly convinced me that R/Hr was more possible). Unfortunately, I've come to a standstill! Knowing that this thread houses those who are loyal to the Harry/Hermione love story, please, do send me some pointers and reasons why they belong together! I'm only researching for an essay to be posted soon, of course... Numerous brain-washing is making me insane...*sigh* I'll go analyse some H/Hr fics now.

Dearest, stay away from Sugar Quill! . . .And Gryffindor Tower. They will try to suck you in. They are the Devil in disquise! (SP?) You want support? Well, you have come to the right place!

1.: Ron and Hermione bicker too much to have a sturdy relationship. If they ever do get together, it won't last long and then HP/HG galore for me! =D

2.: Hermione hugged Harry before she hugged Ron. And kissed Harry on the cheek. JKR does stuff for a reason. She would never make Herm. kiss Harry for no reason. Come on. She always brings uop stuff from the past, and that kiss on the cheek has to mean something!

3.:Hermione was always there for Harry. Yes, there was one arguement between them, but it was really Ron, not Harry. Harry just stayed with Ron when Hermione snapped at him. So, technically, Hermione and Harry have never been in an arguement. (Except SS when they weren't friends yet.)

I have more. Just email me or send me a message if you want more! I'm just tired, but couldn't pass up this great opportunity to make Sugar Squill mad. PORTKEY ALL THE WAY!

Hey Dauphin!

I know how u feel. I've been on the DeathMarch/Deathmatch H/H vs. R/H thread so much... they're just so stubborn and ... well u know how they are.

Sugarquill
Oh dear god. Its Mordor in disguise. (aka OBHWF, quotes from Sir Red XIV)
I shudder at the idea of R/H, even worse, OBHWF+R/H.

Tell me if u need help on that essay, even though it'll be totally pointless to the R/Hrers (u can have JK tell them n they still won't believe it)
I'd like to offer my help. I've analysed a lot of the Trio dynamics. Excellent reasons Harmony I've got more, but no time to post.

Dauphin, I was also planning to write a "Why HH" in the MaxList. Maybe I'll get some tips from u!

L8ter
Max LoneWolf

PS. Tell me if u want my contact.

Harmy feels special. You can go tell Sugar Quill that I said, "Bring it, you fat cows!" In fact, I might just go there now just to harrass them. Heheheeee...

don't do that.. They are entitled to their opinion - no matter how wrong we think it is - they are entitled to their opinion.

I didn't harrass anyone. I'm too chicken (or nice) to do that. I can't even stand making myself mad. I LOVE YOU ALL! Don't be mad at stupid ole' me!

Before I say anything...I just want to make it clear that I'm NOT a R/Hr shipper... This is only part of analysis.

If any of you watched Star Wars, Classic Trilogy, you'll realize that generally Luke (personification of Harry) ends up a sibling to Leia. In truth, the Harry Potter series is very similar to the Star Wars universe. Both their heroes - Luke / Harry - are orphans, the difference being that their respective Aunt and Uncle are drastically different. Nevertheless, I'll expect JKR to pull a stunt like creating a twin sister or something. Hopefully, she won't. I won't live through another "There is another Potter" tale from Albus Dumbledore...Plus, it'll be too clichèd.

Many people feel that, of course, Hermione and Ron's behaviour in Book Four (crushes, wanting to go to the Ball, etc, etc) are basically groundwork for a R/Hr pairing to come. Any one have a crush before? It's usually temporary, although in the instance of Harry/Ginny pairings, it grows into love. Thus, perhaps Hermione is only going through a phase which many females her age would often encounter when they are surrounded by boys all the time.

We can of course see the reason why Ron and Hermione would be put together if JKR ever does that (hopefully no). It's probably an attempt on her part to try to rectify Ron's little inferiority complex. However, Harry is more likely to end up with Hermione rather than Cho, Ginny or any other obscure girl. Hermione is his rock, a sort of support. There's a saying in Chinese which I feel is very sexist, but of course fits the topic - it speaks of the woman behind the successful man. A supporting character like Hermione would fit this saying. She usually stands by Harry. Those on sugarquill.net argue that the Harry regards Hermione as a mother figure, but there is a scientific theory in an obscure issue of Reader's Digest that states - most men look for their partners based on how their mothers are. If Hermione is his supposed mother figure, why not choose the one that fits the profile perfectly rather than go out and dig in the haystack for a needle you may not find?

And to great, wonderful Harmony, your point is good! Hermione hugs Harry and kisses him on the cheek. Even though it reminds me ominously of the kiss that Leia gave Luke in ANH for luck, we'll file that away as evidence that Hermione is physically comfortable with Harry. Oh, by the way, don't go harass them...we should be civilized...of course, another Chinese saying goes..."yi de fu ren" - meaning to convince one with righteousness or something like that...hehe. Say, have I been rambling on too much? Hm...I'll wait for another response then...

Max: Thanks! Continuing with the debate - JKR is known to be unpredictable. The current most likely pairing is R/Hr and H/G. However, knowing our darling Heroine's eccentricity, would she follow the norm and create such a storyline? No!

Oh, by the way, one last point.

The hero gets the girl, not little inferior wimps who get jealous when someone else wins. Has anyone figured out I'm an avid Ron-basher yet?

Harmony - I'm not really mad at you. I'm just telling you not to do that. I don't want R/Hr supporters coming here and doing that too. Frankly we H/Hr shippers are lesser in number than R/Hr - if we go into a flaming war, we'll loose.

Plus they are really not that bad. Most of them are quite reasonable. But like every batch of good students at Hogwarts, there a few badones. And they are from all ships. Us too. And no thinking about doing what you said, and actually doing it is different, so you don't fall into that category

Dauphin! That was such a brilliant piece of work. okay... here is my stuff...

1) Harry's first bit of female contact was Hermione. Not only that, but her hug - which I think is quite innocent, expresses how deeply Harry was scarred by living with the Dursleys. If you ask a social worker who deals with children like Harry - orphaned and neglected, you'll know that people react a lot of time by shielding themselves. Harry litterally froze when Hermione did that. He hadn't expected that - and unlike every other boy who would have had blushed - Harry wanted her to let go. Either JK did her research very well, or she write something like that quite for no reason. I think it's the reasearch. Now the kiss on the cheek - though it's in my opinion was just a friendly kiss (maybe with subconscious meaning), I don't think Hermione was out to express her love . Well mayb the friendly kind of love. She didn't do it to Ron, but we don't know that for certain, and I don't see the need for her to do so. It seems like it was Hermione's first first kiss, not Harry's. Harry's was done by Fleur - the one that made him feel like steam was coming out of his ears.

2) Ahh.... The Fleur Kiss incident. This scene is very controvertial amongst the R/Hr and H/Hr. Both see it as their evidence. Very few people see it as both or atleast the possibilty of both. Fleurs Kisses Harry, Harry looks to Hermione as Ron told fleur that he helped too, and saw her scowling. It's debatable that why was doing doing.

- She saw Harry get kissed and was scawling, and Harry only noticed it then. (H/Hr)
- Fleur inquired whether Ron had helped, and Ron "embelished" and got that kiss, and Hermione was furious about that.

The second one can have two reasons:
a) Hermione was mad at Ron for making up the part about helping Harry. Quite possible for rule loveing Mione.
Hermione was scowling because of Ron getting the kiss - the reason didn't matter.

It all depends on what suits your views. I like the first idea of Hermione unconsciously having a crush on Harry.

Hmm... I seem to be pointing at evidence - but not reasons.

Well a long time ago, when I was very active on FAP : there were lots of discussion there about H/Hr and their rightness.

I will try to recall things as best of my ability. Someone from here, should go there and and "borrow" those reasons. I'm too lazy to log back in

Okay ... so here is what I remember.

Harry and Hermione complete each other: R/Hr people say that too. Ron's insequirities and bad things getting covered up by her good things, and her strictness balancing her rule love. I said in a post before that Harry and Hermione are different from our (h/Hr) view than the one seen by (R/Hr). Theirs we complain is a lot more explosive, and irrational than the mione of the book. They complain that our Hermione is a lot more tame. I would call it seeing wanting we want to see. I personally believe H/Hr views of Hermione are more correct as it's based on the canon and is not extroplating that Hermione's not going to change drastically as soon as R/Hr attraction comes into picture - if ever. But I am a H/Hr shipper, and I am biased. Harry and Hermione are in myopinion are more balanced people to begin with. So their union is likely to make them a better complete person than R/Hr ones, where each other on the opposite site of the spectrum and keep shifting place on the seesaw.


2) Hermione is the girl Harry's looking for. THe next bit is higly biased Harry is looking for a smart and pretty girl. Cho Chang. Ravenclaw, and pretty enough that Harry though of her like a veela girl kind of level. Now the ball hit Harry like locomotive at full speed. Hermione showed up looking like a very cute girl. Suddenly he was looking at her all throughout the evening. And when not doing that, looking at what other people's reaction was. The ball gave a VERY VERY detailed description of Hermione then even Cho got. I personally think Harry is looking for a ravenclaw, that's sitting right next to him

3) JK said. Okay - JK said that the cast of Harry Potter in the 1st movie is exactly like she thought they would be. Well - I'll ask you one thing, who looks better together?

Dan/Emma or Emma/Rupert?

I know it's rather a shallow a reason - but hey, if it worked for the R/Hr people, they would be saying it too
PS: I thought COS Ron looked way too wimpy than he is in the books!


PS : I'm going to go to FAP now, and find that piece of quote - if any one gets it before me, I'll give something for it! Ermm... maybe not

Yes. Ron really bothered my in GoF. I lost most respect for him there. I admired that he accepted that he is poor, but really, he knew Harry was famous when he became best friends with him. I'll go on about that more later. I am at school now.

EECK! I forgot what I wanted to write about physical comfortableness. Harry's first hug, Hermione's first kiss, does anyone but me think it leading to wonderful - canonical smuttiness between H/Hr? no ? okay - must be that time of the day for me

My dear friend Nappa, quality, not quantity matters. We have our logical reasons, and they, the impossibly-stubborn, have their own nonsense. Look at it as we, the supposed angels, are trying to convert them to the right way...

The point about Fleur was wonderful...Personally, I agree with the first. Hermione would have been more likely to be angry about Ron taking credit for saving Gabrielle, too...

Will find more inspiration later to argue more. Hehe...

Wow. You guys are brutal on The Suger Quill. My problem with that site is the way the stories are set up. It's kinda hard ta browse.

*Ducks* But but.......Harry needs some family that isn't repulsive and I think it's okay as long as the character's not a Mary Sue.

Added by NAPPA from anon post by author
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Err, as much as i dont exactly like the R/hr pairing, i still think that everyone is entitled to their own views. We shouldn't exactly sue them for their "misunderstanding".

Some reason's why H/hr cannot seem logical.

1. i dont believe for a moment that someone who fight's at regular intervals can be good life partner's.

2. I dont for a moment believe that a girl as intelectual as Hermione would go for Ron after she has seen Ron's sexual desires. The way he behaves around Fleur would also probably had disgusted Hermione.

3. I wont say here that Weasley's aren't nice. I love all the Weasley's with the exception of Ron, however i think Ron is too emotional for the liking of a subtle girl like Hermione. and also come to think of it, if we glance at the character of Harry, Ron and Hermione, Harry is by far more similar to Hermione (in some aspects) then Ron.


Er, we should get too racial and emotional (allthough this is my own opinion. Sugarquill.net is not exactly crap. There are some good writer's there.)
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Oops...i didn't sign up? did I? i just want to say that last post was written by meh.

Frankly, it's quite plausible. It's likely to be a fraternal twin, if Harry even has a relative...I'm hoping that he'll have a distant aunt or something. A sister won't take his guardianship away from the Dursleys...an aunt or uncle can. Hehe...

magicalmischiefmaker : I don't hate the Weasleys, too. I just detest Ron with a vengeance. Of course, sugarquill.net has its good poitns - for example, its excellent character analysis essays. I could spend eternity reading them...Makes for good research when writing fics. Of course, Ron's tendency to be superficial is shown very clearly in GOF... He starts clinging to Herm only when she looks pretty beside Vicky. What a jerk.

Ok I'm here.
Lol NAPPA the good old days.

Excellent reasons Dauphin! However I'd refrain from saying "Hero gets the girl" u see R/H plp really go after us and htats not what we want to say.

We've explained that HH fits better, they're "made for each other"
its just that HH is more plausible, etc... than R/H.
Not the cliche, Hero-gets-the-girl. I know it meant nothing.. but watch out. You lose a lotta credibility that way. (u'll never have enough cred to convince them tho)

no HP relative, it dosn't work for me. I think L/J only had 1 kid.
and NAPPA, I had that argument a LONG time ago about Fleur...
so long ago... I really do think Hr has a crush on HP she just dosn't know yet and JK is just using R/H as illusion.
I really don't think it'll be that predictable and Viktor is really sealing the deal for me. When he notices Hr speaks bout HP a lot. Lol a 18yr old guy threatened by a scrawny 14yr old? (i know its HP, but still)

I don't hate Ron.
Ok I lied, I dislike him. But its not the point. the point is if I was him, I'd rather wanna be with a fun-loving carefree girl... (perhaps Lav? Parv? without the Hermione-is-pretty jealousy)

Oh and bout the Yule ball. I'm a guy, I can see how Ron goes:

1) Hermione looks pretty
2) She's the only girl I talk to and realistically have a chance
3) She's my friend
4) she's with Krum
Processing>>>>>>
I love Hermione. Must take her.

thats it for now.
Max LoneWOlf

Page Two.*gapes* We're on page two. Oh my gosh. *grin* Hehe...is this a record? The hero gets the girl is only a last resort...a minor point. Plus, it sounds nice as an ending.

QUOTE

Oh and bout the Yule ball. I'm a guy, I can see how Ron goes: 1) Hermione looks pretty 2) She's the only girl I talk to and realistically have a chance 3) She's my friend 4) she's with Krum Processing>>>>>> I love Hermione. Must take her.

How apt! That's perfectly in line with Ron's thoughts! *grin* Thanks to Max, of course...Anyway, we'll have the credibility to prove that Hermione and Harry belong together WHEN JKR puts them together in the books! They won't have any way to rebut then...Note the 'when'.

In many fanfics, they usually portray Ginny or Hermione as someone who wishes for REAL love. If Hermione's character does follow this track, then she'll likely choose Harry, not Ron. Ron is more focused on superficiality (veela, Fleur, Herm at the ball) basically because he probably sees it as a way to enhance his popularity. (pretty girlfriend, good at chess, hopefully a Quidditch player) It's meant to make his ego feel better and his inferiority complex deplete. He would tell himself that his pretty girlfriend is with him because he's a great guy, so on, so on. It makes him feel better when comparing himself with Harry.

Hmm, that is a rather interesting point of view Max. It's definately a very popular POV amongst H/H shioppers and to a certain extent, R/H shippers.

Ah, but why do I think H/H belong together? Well, there are so many dang reasons that I can't be bothered to list them all. So lets just sit back, relax, and revel in our H/H glory.

Eric

See, that's what I think, too. Ron is so jealous of Harry. He even accuses him of putting his name in the Goblet of Fire. Now, if he is bestfriends with the guy, he should know that Harry would never do that. Hermione believes Harry, though. So, that means that she trusts him. I don't think she really trusts Ron, because when Ron and Harry get in their arguement, who does she side with? Harry. Know why? She believes him over Ron. And Ron is all about getting the prettiest girlfriend he can. If he had never seen Hermione get dressed up nice, then he would never get mad at her for going to the Ball with Krum (who I detest). As for Harry, he doesn't get mad because he understands her and trusts her. Ron, being the big jealous git, suspects Hermione of telling Krum the git what Harry's plans are, but Harry knows better. If Ron and Hermione ever do go out, they will break up for lack of trust. Plus, Ron has the gall to get mad at Harry in the first place? Some supportive friend if you ask me. He should've been concerned for Harry's safety rather than get mad because of something that wasn't even his fault. The jerk on a stick. If you ask me, I think he is going to turn evil. I honestly think (don't get mad) that if he had the chance he would sell him to Voldemort, just like Peter. History repeats itself, and here is goes! James and Lily= Harry and Lily. Peter= Ron. Sirius=... Well, I haven't figured out Sirius and Remus yet, but there. I'm at school, and have to shut down now. More of my examination thing later.

Valete!
~Harmy

Harry and Lily...?
You meant Harry/Hermione right?

Oooh...I detest you, Harmony! You've just put yet ANOTHER plot idea into my head! *screams and pulls out hair* Argh...It'll be wonderful to write a story about history repeating itself (did not mean little shameless plugin) and Ron being despicable rat. Can we pwease make Ginny our Sirius and Neville our Remus? Imagine Ron being horrible enough to sell his friends out and set his sister up...Frankly, I think we're too hard on him if we put Ginny. How 'bout Cho? *grin* Ron's superficiality could be reinforced by making him have a failed relationship with Cho...*rolls eyes* Goodness, my plot idea centre in my brain is working overtime recently...Must be all that homework I don't want to do. *kicks self* Be back!

Nappa, do not correct me or FEEL MY WRATH!
Yes, I meant Harry and Hermione, you prat! And I've sat and anylized that idea of hystory repeating itself. I think it works, really. Dauphin! You make me happy! I've inspired someone! I never do that! Thanks for making my day!

Non sequetor: Hey, Nappa, I like the new smilies!

On topic:

I used to like Ron, but ever since I finished GoF, I've rather lost my respect for him. The trust thing. Argh. He is such a poopface. I could call him worse, but I don't swear. He's lucky. Lucky like this clover.

Valete! Vos amo!
~Harmy

Harry/Lily thing:
Belive it it or not, I was confused ... Well then I read my messages oon the thread again, and it made sense ... sorry about that.

I don't correct people about thing in post unless they have logic wrong. I make far too many mistakes to actually go out and correct someone

Dauphin: Write Broken Mirror First you evile wench! You're so evil! If you start another one, I'll faint!

Ron:
Personally I liked him weel enough till book4. I didn't LOVE him - or hate him. I loved the time in the 3rd book, he said he would give his life for Harry, and stood to protect Harry from Sirius. But like you - I lost respct for him 4th book too. Trust thing really annoyed me .

Plus It's come to my attention that in 2nd book, Ron had to think if he wanted to help Harry or not. In the Third he didn't stop to think to save Harry. Maybe Ron's not in love with Hermione but with Harry!

Hi people

I'm the Thieving Magpie and you can call me a diehard H/H Shipper

Here's what I think about the Ships in Canon.

I believe that Ron an Hermione will be together, BUT hopefully not for too long. And I think Hermione will break up this relationship very soon again. Perhaps not because she's in Love with Harry yet, but because she doesn't want to leave him alone or as an outsider. So if that happens, Ron will be absolutely mad at Hermione, which will certainly lead her to Harry. Harry of course will remember Hermione's loyalty from 4th year and he will definitely stay by her side. This will leave Ron alone but both Harry and Hermione feel sorry for him and after some time he will be part of the trio again. He might as well turn to the dark side, which would be ok for me too!

Honestly, if anybody, not even my best friend, would have rescued my little sister from Lord Voldemort I would certainly never doubt his intentions! I think that Ron may be the only reason why Harry and Hermione stay away from each other, because they're both to good to hurt his feelings.

But even if they don't get together we still have Fanon!

PS: Sorry for the poor grammar, but I'm not from any english speaking country!

Hullo, Thieving Magpie I remember that name from Tintin Do you know the comic? Don't worry. Anyway... on with the replies

Losing respect for Ron:
==================
I will admit that I see Ron as a weak link. I will admit I see him often as dimwitten and cowardly - but he is not THAT cowardly. In the Movie 2 - I hated the way they made Ron too cowardly! They gave no reasons for him being afraid, and it looked like that he was just a scardie cat. He had a terrible joke played on him when he was young, so being afraid of spiders is a natuaral thing. I did loose repect for Ron in book 4, but the movie is trying to bring plot points forward way too early, and it's ruining both the books and the movie..... not that I liked the movie much anyway.

EDIT:
=====
I forgot the rest of the post!

Your post was wonderfully written - far better than mine. I don't excuse it much - even though I'm in a rush most of the time. Too many bloody committments

One thing I love about Ron's character is that I make him a nice guy and a bad guy - and I don't have to tamper with the canon. To do the same with Draco or Harry or Hermione would need Canon tampering... Anyway... Welcome to the board

PS: does anyone want to discuss gripes and things about the movie ? - Will make a seperate forum, and you can have your say..

Well, thank you for the welcome wagon, Nappa!

Actually I've been lurking around here for quite a while now.

I have to admit, I don't know that Comic. My name was originally inspired by a live album of my favorite band called Marillion. Some people may still know them.

I don't really dislike Ron and I even agree with you about the Movie Ron. They mad him look like complete Idiot. Honestly, he was far worse than Neville! Even after the Incident at the Quidditch pitch in Hagrid's hut, right after Malfoy called Hermione a Mudblood they did let Hermione explain the whole Mudblood thing to the others. If I recall the 2nd book, this is exactly the only time when Ron knows something more about anything than hermione.

BTW I would like to discuss the Movie in a separate Forum, there a quiet a few things that bother me.

Ron stinks. he has a big character flaw. something like voldermort, but in a completely different sense...he has some complex...and he shows it also...i think j.k also dislikes Ron but being a chief character she can't show it...now i do hate those people who make the Weasley's carbon copies of Malfoy's until it is an Au fic or a completely magnificant one...points to Royko's hidden beneath

HEY MAGPIE! Welcome aboard! H/H for all, I say! I hope to see some of your fics floating around if you have any! I'll eventually get ot reading them... ::scans 76583093987 mile long list of fics to read and adds Magpie to it.::

Nappa, I still love you! You're allowed to correct me all you want. (Yeah right.) You know, you should make a forum where we can just talk about each character and what not. Then we can rant or rave about whoever and so on. I think the Ron analysis is taking up quite some discussion time here, although it does help to encourage H/H...

Hey, you know... PoA comes out in 2004... Ahhh, Sirius, my love.... X_X? Well, this is for Harry and Hermione, so Sirius can wait...

Well, see you all around!

~Harmy

Seperate Forums for the Characters :
Not a good idea! - Speaking more from the site administering perspective. It would mean for me to devide up a the people on the site a lot more than they are. I mean we don't have that many people on the site, so diving up would lead to thme leaving

If you want to discuss a character in the H/Hr fanfic - just make a thread. And utter your thoughts about that character in that ship. For example. like a Thread like : " Draco in Harry/Hermione fics."

Just to tlak to talk about a character would not really fitting for the site. As we really only talk about Harry/Hermione, Lily/James and Draco/Ginny and their relationship. Err... I hope you guys got what I meant...

I'll be right back and fill up the rest of the post... Kind of busy at work ;;

Wow...I've only been away a day or two and everyone's gone on a posting frenzy! *sigh* Must make note to get away from my stupid addiction to the Net...Hehe...

Nappa: You know I'm evil...plus, my favourite pastime is irritating you! Hehe...I've started Broken Mirror. Don't worry, I'll make sure it comes up before the 31st! I'll feel very bad if I miss your wedding present...Hehe...

Thieving Magpie[I]: Welcome! Welcome! *sighs* That stupid choir song our instructor makes us sing is getting to me...Anyway, hope you like the site! As a sort-of pioneer who's been here ever since this site started up, I hope you have a nice time here! I'm sort of a lurker too...I regularly lurk on the Jedi Council Boards...It took months before I finally decided to register at ff.net...Hehe. Now that I'm becoming appalled at the quality of stuff there...Ah, nevermind...Anyway, lurking on portkey is not a good idea! We needs posts! We needs posts! *darn, Dobby, get lost!* *shameless plugin* Of course, there are many great fics here...H/Hr forever!

Oh, bother...our little H/Hr board has become a Ron-bashing board! Eric is too good at killing threads...*screech* Murderer! *j/k* Hehe...I'm a little hyper...just finished watching Meteor Garden 2...those in Taiwan and Asia would know what crap I'm spouting...Hehe...

Harmony: I always get inspired by other people...Glad I made you happy! *sigh* Gotta file that silly plot idea away for a while before I get back to BM... Thanks...

Well, I've rambled enough...

Oh, by the way, magicalmischiefmaker...Alternate Universes are so named because people are set in different places and thus have different attitudes! Plus, it's nice to have a Ron you can hurl abuse at even more credibly! But anyway, everyone has their own opinion. I believe in free speech, and I'm not going to criticize someone for voicing their thoughts.

By the way, Nappa, cool emoticons!

QUOTE

Hullo, Thieving Magpie  I remember that name from Tintin  Do you know the comic? Don't worry. Anyway... on with the replies

I LOVE Tintin! It's the best comic ever!

Thieving Magpie- Isn't that from The Castafiore Emeralds? That's my favourite one! Originally an opera by Rossini. Anyway, welcome aboard!

Ron

I simply HAVE to defend Ron! He's actually my favourite character. Yes, he was stubborn in GoF, but think of it from his PoV. He was jealous of his friend and all that. But he got over it. Hell, he's the most human character in the series. Nobody is perfect and Ron is a delicious example. He is funny and brave and JEALOUS. Yes, I know and that's just part of his character.

~Silvestria~

Emoticons :
They're not mine I found them on a website, and decided to "borrow" them I quite like them so far

Ron bashing :
I'm pretty sure we're not bashing him. We're just...erm... talking about him. He has his flaws. So does Harry, and Hermione. Harry is insecure, Hermione's a perfectionist. Ron is jealous. It's just that I don't think either of those are as serious as Ron's proplems. I guess it is sort of picking on him ... I will try to do better (hides his side).

Ron got over it?
I'm not sure he did. I mean look at this way. Ron was behaving oddly with the Veela girls at the Quidditch world cup. He was warned of the danger. Outside the stadium, Harry and Hermione had to drag him away from the Veela girl that all the boys were trying to impress. And then He got that crush on Fleur. He lost his mind and asked her to the ball. He took credit for "helping" Gabriel to get a kiss. I don't think in all that time, he really got what was the lesson. It was the lesson on looking deeper than the skin - he didn't see it, and Hermione got mad at him because of that.

I don't think it is fair to say that Ron is over what happened in book4. They have not talked about it. Not that we know of. All we know that Harry saw Ron come into the tent after the first task and he assumes that Ron came to apologise. It could have been that as jealous as he was, he just wanted to see if his friend was safe. Who knows.

I guess I might be being pedantic here. But I really think there nees to be a talk between Harry and Ron about that. But knowing teenaged guys like I do (since I'm still one) - It's hard to talk about anything serious without making a joke out of it all. I'll reserve my judgement about whether or Ron is over it till I see the same situation come again, and this time Ron beliving Harry.

hey there...as Nappa as already said that Ron has a bad side and that is Jealousy, AND I think that it is the biggest problem. Ron is jealous of his own friends! Harry is insecure. That itself is not a major flaw. He never shows it.

I agree with all of you guys! R/Hr simply does NOT stand! Um, let me see...Ron's just this jealous idiot (sorry, I just can't like Ron after GOF) and if he dates Hermione he wouldn't let Hermione have a social life at all. And in GOF isn't Harry the one defending Hermione? *hinthint* And Hermione's always shunned to one side because of the great Harry Potter and she stood by him like a rock and even got cursed by Malfoy because of Harry! Doesn't that just prove Harry and Hermione complement one another like Yin and Yang (sorry, just had to drag in some Chinese philo.) So yeah, H/Hr rules!

Hi!

This is, I think, my first time posting here!?!?!?! Please be nice.....

Anyway, some of y'all may recognize me from FAP on various threads & yes I'm an H/Hr!!!!!!!

Before I get started, I feel I need to make a little correction here......

Dauphin - I hope you don't mind me correcting your SW parallel with HP? First off, Harry is *not* Luke. Harry is Han Solo because they both were orphaned and lived with family that did not love him at a very early age. Luke's family loved him. Hermione would be more like Luke, the only child and loving family. Ron would be more like Leia because of the large loving family.

Weird ain't it????

Anyway, I guess I'm supposed to give my reasons as to why H/Hr works for me. Uhhhh, there are too many to choose from!?!?!?! Basically, to me they just click together. I'm glad that they are making the movies because the one thing we really don't see when reading a book is that we can't see facial expressions, which tell a whole lot of information. Can't wait for OotP OR PoA Moive!

Ron: Yeah, I did like him until GoF. What it was for me was the trust, or lack thereof, with Harry. You just don't do that, a very big no no.

I'll post more laters!

See ya!

Sarmi

Sarmi: Welcome to portkey.org! Feel free to post all you like, as Nappa has encourage all insane shippers to go on posting frenzies...Hm...I personally wish for more corrections...That was a good point you made, but previously, I already stated the differences and why Luke does not equal Harry...

Was it ever mentioned that Solo had a bad family? Anyway, I was merely comparing Luke with Harry. There are some parallels - Harry and Luke both do a lot of hard work, but the Lars are not biased - they're merely poor. Ron is poor, and that is the irony of comparing him to the rich royal Organas. Why am I bothering? *grin* This isn't the Star Wars board...Hehe...we're all entitled to our own point of view. Will desist immediately.

Seeing as we're nearing Christmas, perhaps I should post a Christmas challenge! Undoubtedly, no one is going to answer it. *sigh* How pathetic...I must get off soon because my cousin's computer is burning out...

More analysis and philosophy soon! (Katie: Are you Taoist?)

christmas challenge! oh do post a chirstmas challenge. i am sure some one will hark to that....

Hello!

For the past 20 minutes I've read every post on this here thread. And I can discuss! I wonder why I never posted in here before.

Ron:

Poor Ickle Ronnie! Peoples dislike him... maybe even hate him. Well he got that for being such a jerk! But he's still one of my favourite characters! I shall defend him, I shall.

Ron's lack of trust in GoF does prove the kind of friend he is... to a certain extent. Remember, Ron is very immature, as most guys his age (14 in this case) are. If you try to compare him to Harry, don't. Harry is very different, he has experienced more things than probably every student at Hogwarts put together. Though maybe not Neville. Therefore, Harry is a bit more mature (though not entirely!) but just a bit. Remember Harry was a prick too when they were not talking to each other, and a stubborn one as well.

Ron doesn't mean bad. He's always shunned to one side by everyone, and of course, being with the mental capacity of an 8-year-old (aprox.), of course he will get jealous! Katie said something about Hermione being shunned to one side by Harry's fame too. Well not entirely true, Hermione is well-known at Hogwarts because of her intelligence skills. also, because of all the rumours now, but thats a different story. Ron is funny, brave, in some things smart. It's all part of his character (like Silvestria said).

I know you are not bashing him, but just "picking on him"

Well I'm going to emphatize on another character, my favourite:

Hermione

The loyal friend, I daresay. Truth is, she has sticked by Harry throughout the books. The only time they've had a disagreement was on PoA, because Harry sided with Ron. And the whole Firebolt issue, but it did say that Harry knew her intentions meant right. As for the hugs, clings, and the kiss, it shows that Hermione is physically comfortable with Harry. and she has hugged Ron. but only two times in the entire series, if I remember well.

She's a perfectionist and very stubborn at times, but she means well. She truly does care about the two of them. But when Harry and Ron argue, she sticks by Harry. Though not odd, as she is more open to him, I think that this showed which way Hermione would go if she ever came to a choice between the two, IMO.

In GoF it's showed to the full extent Hermione's interaction with Harry and how deep and trustful their friendship is. In the first task, she helps him quite a lot and takes all her time with him. We never get Hermione's POV so we don't know what makes her react the way she does towards Harry. She's constantly talking about him in GoF, and Merlin knows what she really thought of the articles in which she was portrayed as Harry's girlfriend, maybe along the lines of "I wish"? No? Yes? Maybe? Possibly? Tee hee.

H/Hr vs R/Hr

It's all about the trust, baby! Clearly, Hermione trusts more in Harry than she does in Ron. Harry and Hermione's relationship is based in trust, while Ron and Hermione's is based in... Harry. Yes, it's all because of the mutual friend. Think about it, Harry was the one that thought of Hermione when the Troll incident. If that wouldn't have happenned, either Hermione would be dead, and/or they wouldn't even be friends. I think Harry didn't make friends with Hermione at first because of what Ron may have thought it he became friends with that "snobby, bossy girl" IMO people IMO.

And remember the "midnight duel" in SS/PS? When Hermione tries to stop them, JKR puts as if she's worried about rules. But we all know that she can lie well -coughtrollthingcough-. What if the REAL reason was that she didn't want him to get hurt? First signs of possible friendship right there, same in flying lessons. While Harry does listen to her (though not really does what she says) Ron is simply annoyed with her, and refuses to listen to her.

Well that's all my mind can think of now, and for the sake of you guys don't dying out of boredom, I'll leave it at that.

~Blue

First off.....I gotta be quick.....it's storming outside! Eek!

Dauphin - If you only went by the SW movies, then yeah you could see Harry as Luke. BUT Ron still wouldn't be Han because Han never complains & whines, Luke does. There is a history behind all the SW characters, we only know about Luke & Leia's. However, Han was orphaned around the age of 2, I think. He was sent to live with his aunt & fat cousin that did hated him. There's more to Han's character than most people realize. I'm not the one to ask about it, my husband is. That's why I know what I know about it at the moment.

Okay, I know I went completely OT. I'm gonna get back on track here!

Blue - Very good points!

I know that it seems that we are bashing Ron here, but more like we are picking him apart. Anyway, here are my quick views....

Ron

To me, Ron seems to complain a lot. It's understandable to complain if you've got something passed down to you, you can't help it, you didn't get a choice in the matter. However, after Ron lost Scabbers, Sirius gave him an owl. Yet, he still complains about that owl. He also seems to be sarcastic & rude to both Harry & Hermione. I've seen a few instances where he's rhetored (sp?) to something Harry said that made me want to hurl my book. With Hermione in GoF, he was nagging her about her date.

The problem is with Ron's character is that there are so many faults that scream out at you, that you can't ignore them. I've tried to look at the books from a perspective of why would Ron do this or that. Ron is a very confusing character at the moment. Everytime I re-read GoF, I always am left wondering "what the hell is up with Ron?"

I would say more, but then it would feel like I'm really bashing him.

Gotta go!

Sarmi

Oh yeah, I just thought of a lame reason. You know in POA when Ron's out cold and Harry and Hermione were saving the day? They worked together perfectly, didn't they? Same with the Sorcerer's Stone, when Ron's out cold again (do you think JKR meant to imply H/Hr?). Yup, yup. I mean, with Ron and Hermione working together, like trying to "save" Harry from Snape (SS), they bicker. So yeah, H/Hr rules!

Dauphin: I'm not exactly a Daoist, but with all the Daoism my history teacher is cramming into my head I can't help but sticking it here! ^^ Oh, by the way, your story Let History Repeat Itself is awesome! Update soon! I review it under another penname at ffn.

Hey. hey!

Katie- Very good point, I didn't catch that, but you did. Maybe JKR is trying to imply that even if Ron isn't there Harry and Hermione could work together perfectly. But if Harry wasn't there, I don't think Ron & Hermione would stay friends too long.

Sarmi- Hi! A Pumpkin!Glomp to you! I understand you are not bashing him. And I see your points on that, and yes, Ron does complain a lot.

R/Hr

Okay, about this, I forgot to say it in the last post, but one of the reasons Ron and Hermione couldn't possibly have a long term relationship is the fact that they are too much alike! Think about it, I don't think they would STAND each other. If as friends they bicker constantly, I'm afraid to see what happens when they have a relationship....

~Blue

The Ron!fight in GOF:
Erm What was said about Harry being stupid in the fight really made me think. In the end, I've come to believe that Harry wasn't. If you look at the chapter right after the fight, it starts off with Harry opening up Ron's four poster and wanting to shake sense into Ron. However Ron wasn't there!

Harry had every intention to stop it in the beginning. Ron only made an "attempt" when he was almost killed. I' quoting that because I really don't think it was an apology... Ron made no attempts before that we know of...

That's why I blame the entire thing on Ron. Anyway... I just read a semi NC17 fic in it's draftness by a potential appliacatnt to the site, and am still buzzing

Welcome to the thread every one I believe this is the biggest one there is on this site. I you guys

NAPPA
(Who is not looking forward to an entireday with the spawn - his would be neice )

Let the Ron bashing begin.

Rons only good point is his ability to play chess, other than that he is superfical, has an inferiority complex, he really isn't all that brave, and he lies to people, he is incredibly weak towards veela charm. (side note: fluer will be the new DADA teacher, though that is my own personal thought from the evidence, not only this it will make him look even worse when this happens)

Harry on the other had is quite reserved though he still has his faults which are few and far between. one he has an uncontrolable temper, though this could end up saving his butt or someone else's. Harry is brave to a fault, but he's surprisingly talented and is able to get himself out of most situations. and the most important fault is his loyalty to that jerk Ron.

I'll admit that in the first books Ron wasn't so bad and he was likable, but i lost all respect for him in GOF. (side note: i really should go off on that cradle robber vicky too.)




Christmas Challange: H/Hr fic where Herm uses misiltoe to its fullest extent to get some kisses from Harry.

Ron bashing...:
I think we're trying to pick on him... tis the season to be jolly, so no real maliciousness is being done here. I hope... I think most of us here might be taking out the frustration for book 5 and the unnessary bringing forward of the R/Hr subplot - when there is no evidence in book to do so - on ickle Ronniekins That is my reasons these days to bash him.

Vicky Bashing!:
Yes.. this we don't have enough of... We need more of this... PS: I love Fall of Childhood. ! I have never felt that badly at Vicky (he was what brought Mione into focus for Harry), but that fic has (turned) me. He's soooo evil! Grrr... Craddle Robbibng! Grrr...

Though I find it odd that SOME girls love Oliver/Hermione, but they also frown on V/Hr... I think Vicky is better than a quidditch mad jock - and HE IS NOT Sean! The book Oliver is more of an obsessed - think nothing other than Quidditch guy. I shouldn't talk. I love Harry/Alicia... atleast Oliver / Hermione has that statement about him almost kissing Hermione for fixing Harry's glasses. Ermm... yeah.. ...

Bashings in general:
Okay, I'm not going to bring down the hammer and close the thread. Ron bashing with reasons and evidences are allowed. As are any other bashing. Just don't go overboard. Don't insult others for thinking other than the way you think. That's all I have to say for now.

MUST GET BACK TO COOKING - Evil Neice is coming - would-be-neice)

PS: There is a Chellege thread specifically on the forum. http://talk.portkey.org/index.php?act=SF&f=12

PS2: I only said the bashing things at the end as a warning, as these things tend to get out of control way too easily. And then people get hurt feelings. AND let me make it clear NO one has done this yet. This is just a precautionary thing...

PS3: Merry X-mas everyone

hey Nappa isn't Vicky 18 or so???? thats 4 years age difference. that would be like me dating a 14 year old. hmmm i wonder if Vicky will be teh one JK kills off. one can only hope, as far as i know and with as much as i rant about him being a bowlegged, humpshouldered, damn right ugly cradle robber, no one has ever stood up for him. why?? secretly every one agrees with me

With all the horrors that Harry has to confront, harry needs Hermione, he needs her badly. (side note: i wonder if dobby will be the match maker here, he seems to play a very important role... oh man this is what i get for thinking into these things what if Dobby is the one to die??)

Hey Nappa, was that little post about me? No> Oh, shouldn't have gotten my hopes up...

I don't really have any two cents to add for u people, but I will say you make some interesting points.

Vicky... Vicky... doesn't ring a bell. Who is this Vicky person u are all talking about? Please yell at me in capital letters until I understand.

Wait, you mean Krum, don't you?!

I feel very stupid right now.

my words are often misunderstood, because of the way I say them. I'm not that good in english, and it's all self taught. So I try when I can to make sure that no one thinks comments are directed specifically at them - if they were, I always do : NAPPA: It maked for neater posts.

En Shu: Vicky is Victor Krum - and don't feel stupid. I get things very late. I mean really late. I had once gotten a joke three days after it was told me and while I was talking to my brother about something really important. *shakes head*

Aside from that... I feel stupid right now. I sent out an email yesterday to a group - my group ... I pressed the send button before I checked it... very stupid of me!

Hey guys!

First off, nappa I totally understand you with the bashing. You just want to say something about it before it does get out of control. Gotcha!

I'm gonna pause on that Ron thing for a moment & go to Krum.

When I saw Krum, my first thought was...."what in the world is he doing with a 14 year old girl?"

To me, I saw Krum wanting to go to the Yule Ball with Hermione, inviting her to Bulgaria, & her being the thing that he would miss most as a reason to compromise her virtue.

Yes, he does seem shy like Harry is. I immediately picked up on that. Hermione seems to like the quiet shy type boys, which would be Harry.

Anyway, Krum just seems to be trying too hard to get her or keep her. I really do hope in OotP that we find out that she broke it off with Krum at the end of GoF.

Well, there's what I can put in at the moment! See ya!

Sarmi

i agree with the point that When Hermione went to the ball with Victor, it made Harry think of her in a slightly different way. One often doesnt recognises something valueble when we live with it or work with it constantly but small little accidents make us realize that how valueble a thing can be. now somewhere in HARRY'S heart there were feelings for Hermione, but as we know Harry's isn't very expressive he didn't tell them to anyone and probably felt that becuase he was a friend of Hermione, he loved her like a friend. But when hermione went out with krum, the feelings again came out with full force, and i think they would make Harry realize that he difinately has feelings for Hermione.
I wont say that Harry doesn't recognise Hermione as a pretty girl.
J.K.Rowling wrote something like,

"he was with a pretty girl in blue suite." Now J.k. Rowling sometimes write with Harry's pov, and if its the case here, (i dont think there is a reason to believe that this is not the case here,) then Harry definately recognises hermione as a beautiful girl and its only Human nature that every hormonal male has some feelings for a beautiful girl, whether she be a friend or not....