Hermione's feelings on the matter would forever be a topic of debate, but JKR has never made a mystery of it. If you want to consider the character's intentions, consider what the author has to say.

If we stick by canon, I'm completely convinced that it would be far more OOC for Hermione to give up on the person she actually loves, than the way she acted all throughout HBP. If Hermione ever gave up on Harry--the one she supposedly loved more than Ron, then that would ruin Hermione for me forever.

Although I really did want Harry and Hermione to be together, I have to agree with that, accept that too.

But it's like the real world, isn't it? Two wonderful people we know...We shake our heads for every moment they share... and sigh sadly when they're with someone else... and finally want to knock their heads together.
But the fact remains: they are not together.

Harry and Hermione are, to me, a bittersweet love story. I like to think that Harry and Hermione are just another example of two people who ascended to a level higher than a romantic, loving relationship, more than the true love we all know or dream of, more than family. That's why, although I wanted them together, I'm glad they didn't.

Two people who should be together (and aren't) is one of, if not the, my favorite romance stories ever...
Because it reminds me that perhaps there's something more than a mortal human being comprehends. There's something that we can only feel to believe instead of seeing. It gives me an odd hope: to get close to a beautiful mystery, to know what that is, to have something of it my own...I'll find it. In this lifetime or another, it will be within my grasp. And when it happens, everything else that I've seen or read will seem all the more beautiful.

But then again, I can be an overly sappy dreamster.

But then again...

I can't wait to know what that really means...
And for Harry and Hermione, that's all I really needed to know...or feel.

This is exactly what I meant in my last post. We dont know for sure what Hermione felt. Its possible that she could have loved him or else had a crush on him but we never will know for sure. I'm still not going to believe that as FACT.

But please can we move this out of this thread. This thread (much less this forum) isnt supposed to be a debating arena. Its supposed to discuss Harry and Hermione's realationship in Deathly Hallows.

Now now guys, none of that. This is suppose to be a happy/make you feel better thread. So lets get back on topic.


Yaaay Padfoot_Lives! Boooo JKR!

haha.

Yes let's calm down and settle with some pumpkin pie guys. We are called Harmonians or are we not? Some threads will have debates it's the life at forums. As long as we can have peaceful debates I see no reason not to have them. Just be careful on what you say because it's all about interpretation. What you mean might not always be what people will think. I think the HP series is an example of that.

Now on topic great job Padfoot_Lives. We didn't get quite what we wanted, but I got through this series without a mental breakdown. I find that an accomplishment on it's own.

Well, I had actually agreed with some of your comments. Your sarcastic remarks were so unbelievably funny, I couldn't help sniggering at them. Lol, never knew there were so many romantic moments...

hey padfoot i love your analysis! it makes me feel so much better about DH. in regards to the movies I think its great how even on screen Harry/Hermione have this undeniable connection. One scene that stood out to me in OOTP was during Fred/George's get away when everything slows down and Hermione is the only one who notices out of the entire school that Harry is in trouble and goes to him. It was my favorite part.

I don't think it would be out of character for Hermione to give up on Harry, if she loved him enough. Yeah, we'll never know for sure, but I think Hermione just wanted Harry to be happy. I did the same thing once...I gave up one of my best friends because I could see how happy the other girl made him...and who am I to mess with that? So yeah, I think it's possible.

i agree with miss harmony i will alwyas think hermione loved harry nothing will change that. its kinda cliche but she's right if you really love someone then let them go thing. it fits hermione who is caring(in books1-5 and some of 7)

Beautiful essay Padfoot and I like that you pointed out in our last part to this essay how Harry does not appear to look pleased when R/Hr kiss for the first time. If JKR wanted the readers to think Harry was happy to see his friends get together,she was sadly mistaken. She could have written Harry's reaction a thousand different ways. As soon as "the magic moment" happened,why didn't she write that he at least gave half a smile and then reminded them that the war was still going on? Instead she chose to make him sound annoyed that they were acting oblivious to the situation and needed to focus on the job at hand. It shouldn't have mattered whether they were in the midst of the war or not,Harry should have at least taken a split second to look happy for them to seal the "I only care for her as a sister" line we were fed. To me the scene plays as a final confirmation that he gave her up and having to watch her run into his friend's arms,ties into this bittersweet love story between H/Hr. In two months when I re-read DH,I'll remember what you said in your essay and the book will make clearer sense that it is a beautiful,tragic love story.

ITA. JKR could've written it as "Under any other circumstance, Harry would've been pleased for his best friends. But there was a battle going on and he needed them to focus on the task at hand."

But we get nothing but annoyance and impatience from Harry. Hmm, jealous much?

In my delusional mind, Harry's big sacrifice in DH was not his willingness to die for humanity, it was giving up Hermione. JKR wasn't going to let him die and he had to give up something to live.

Shipping is entirely a matter of opinion, but the fact that some shippers can take a look from the other's POV is wonderful. I think that perhaps JK shouldn't have canoned any pairings, and left it open to us to believe though...

Bolding mine.

I sometimes think that this would have been best, that Rowling not pick the final pairings but have the reader continue with his/her preferences.

I would have liked reading DH so much more if Rowling had not crammed the fact that Harry missed Ginny soooo much. I got the message Ms. Rowling! And, the scenes where Hermione cries herself into oblivion and Harry walks around looking at the Marauder's map as if he expects his beloved to jump out at him ... well, it was just too much. SO, I would have preferred that she not shipped at all. HBP was bad enough for me to muddle through! Then I had to navigate the same murky waters to see what all happens in the other sub-plots!

She could have written it better - without shippings - this way we wouldn't have had the crapilogue either.

I still feel - because the book accentuates the H/Hr moments, that Harry and Hermione are each others soul mates. It doesn't matter that they do not get together in the end. It happens all the time in real life, and that is that not everyone marries their soul mate. It's a pity.

But people so often discuss their preferences as if their pairing is fact, or if their pairing is the only one with real canon support, that the issue becomes extremely heated.

I really do with more people agreed with you, misspsychopath, and supported their ships knowing that their preference is an opinion and not G-d's honest truth =/

You are right, shipping is according to the fan. I ship Harry/Hermione, and ofcourse that's all I see. The following is for harry/hermione shippers, or anyone who wants to read it. It contains about two to three scenes or references to the scenes from the DH book. I'm not making a debate, I'm merely expressing what I think. Don't take it as a debate.

Wow, this thread. It's great to know that Harmonians are still up for the future of Harry and Hermione. I believe that no matter what is printed on the books, no matter what's said on T.V., or newspapers, or anything, Harry and Hermione are perfect for each other. I know the book pretty much paired them off differently, but I thought that ...well, I thought the ending would be so much different than that! there are so many people in my family that love the pairing that J.K gave us, but I put a strike to it. To me Hermione was always the herione in the book, the strongest female caracter. She didn't care about outward appearances, and she was a very very smart girl, and proud of it too!

I'm sure Hermione was a role model to many girls, and I always thought that she would go with ...what am I saying? What I meant to say it, I knew that she would end up with Harry, because he is the hero of the story, and strong enough to be equals, and to make each other hole. I know I know...fighting and bickering is Ron's and Hermione's little romance deal, but it sounds more like a crush than anything else. I'm not saying that Hermione never had feelings for Ron, I mean, she is a girl and she is growing, and she is an adolescent. Since when dos an adolescent just love one boy?

While I read the last book, I felt like I didn't even recognize the character anymore, it didn't feel like the other books I read before. Somehow, from the last book to this one , the characters morphed in such a way that I didn't even now them anymore. Everything just seemed so...I don't know. All I know is that if harry and Hermione shared such deep, intense events in the book, events that can only bring you closer...and Ginny? Where was Ginny throughout the entire time?

And Dumbledore...dear dear dear Dumbledore. He...his past..I guess I never expected this of him. And Snape, well that one I knew wasn't bad, because Dumbledore believed in him, and I have to say that I trusted dumbledore's character.

Harry kept on reaching out for Hermione, and Hermione kept on reaching out for him, the love each other. Hermione and Harry stuck together the entire time, making sure to be good for the other, like a real working couple.

The relationships seemed so...unreal. I don't see adolescent love like that, there is now way that adolescent love can be like that. Especially Ginny's and Harry's. I managed to completely dislike her character after she was suddenly thrust upon us, because that's what happened, we had to swallow her up, she was pushed on the pages, as some sex goddess that had suddenly transformed into this desired girl. I mean, even Draco had looked at her with desire, come on! So is that what harry and Ginny's relationship is all about? Being gorgeous and being able to make pretty babies? So suddenly we have to swallow that Ginny is not only so gorgeous that even Draco looks at her, but she's also so powerful that she can make exceptional boogey curses, and has a temperament to much Harry's, and she's such a saint that she understand why Harry is leaving, so she doesn't cry? So, let's just name her Super Ginny and get it over with. Ok, that's mean. she's not bad, and it's not her fault, she's just a character in a book, and she hasn't exactly done anything horrible.

Where are the deep felt moments(b/w Harry and Ginny)? Where are the long hours of talking and understanding each other. Where are the sweet moments where just the mere presence of each other is enough and it is not necessary to have those passionate kisses, which pretty much is what their relationship is.

And this is (Harry and Ginny's) the relationship that is strong enough to take them to marriage? Come on! It was such an easy ending, Harry/Ginny, Ron/hermione, and they can now all belong to the happy Weasly family and still be friends, yay! *I think I just barfed a little*

I understand though why some might see Harry and Hermione as just friends, but not even friends care for each other THAT deeply. I have friends whom I care for plenty, but sometimes I could just ...well, let's just say that I wouldn't exactly be as patient and understanding as harry and Hermione are with each other.

I'll always remember the scene between Harry and hermione, in the wedding, when SHE looks at him, and HE looks at her, as the final words are said. Why THEM? Why not Ginny Harry? Why not Ron Hermione? IT WAS HARRY HERMIONE!! Because that's just the way it is.

There are so many hints in the book that could have NOT been JUST coincidencial! One will always see what they want to see no matter what.
I will always believe in harry and hermione, because I believe in love. And that's the story I'm sticking to. To me, it's fanfic based, and as a fan of the harry Potter series, I know harry and hermione will always be together, they are soul mates, they complete each other. they make each other better.

Thanks for letting me express myself (because my family/friends are tired of listening to my theories),

a Harmonian fan.

Yes - I think the book's overall effect on people in general would have been much better if she left the pairings/shipping alone or not as set as it was. Up until the second to the last chapter would have been fine. Leave it open and hopeful. With the epilogue, it was so sappy and mawkish. It was worse than Disney which usually just ends with a wedding or a kiss.

PADFOOT,
THANK YOU SO MUCH
FOR POSTING FIVE PARTS ANALYSIS OF HARMONY MOMENTS IN DH
U R JENIUS!!!

I am rereading Deathly Hallows right now, and I'm so sad to say I finally found evidence for why Harry fits better with Ginny...I mean, when Harry was lost in a haze about the Hallows, it was Ron who took up the leadership in destroying Horcruxes. I couldn't for the life of me figure out why Hermione would go for Ron over Harry, but I found the proof. Harry secretly prizes the connection he feels with Voldemort, it's right there in the text. Hermione doesn't believe in the Deathly Hallows, and this pits Harry and Hermione against each other for what seems like an irreconcilable difference. Harry doesn't care that he's being impulsive, even agrees with Xeno Lovegood that Hermione was being "Narrow...close minded..." so great was his desire to be reunited with his lost family.

Ginny and Harry share a connection with what Voldemort can do, they share a connection because of the diary being a Horcrux. They are both impulsive...who wants to bet me that Ginny would believe Harry about the Hallows, if he told her after Voldemort was gone? Harry might have gone after Ginny because he saw Ron and Hermione growing closer...but this still breaks my heart! Does anyone have an explanation for this? Please?

Just because they are both impulsive doesnt make them right for eachother. It doesnt matter if they were right or wrong. This is one of the reasons I like H/Hr is because they both think from differnt aspects of the same situation. They balance eachother out.

Sorry for butting in...

IMO Harry and Hermione never really disagreed on anything. Harry knows Hermione is right but just chooses not to listen to her. In his mind he agrees with Hermione but just never says it.

Look at all their major fights:
PoA-
Firebolt: Harry knew Hermione had good intentions but choose to be mad at her because Ron was

OotP-
Occlumency: Instead of closing his mind like he should have he continued looking into Voldemort's mind which lead to Sirius's death
Kreacher: Hermione told Harry to be nice to it even though Kreacher calls her Mudblood

HBP-
potions book/Sectumsempra: Harry knew the using the book to cheat was wrong as well as using an unknown curse on Malfoy yet he agrues with Hermione because he doesn't want to give her the pleasure of being right

DH-
Godric's Hollow: Hermione had warned him it would be dangerous to go there; Harry let his guard down resulting in snake bites

There are very few moments where they actually disagree, and none of those moments ever escalated into a fight like R/Hr

HBP: Major disagreement between them was about Malfoy and what he is up to. And of course, in the end Harry was right. And it was quite important issue since it was kind of the major plot of the book.

DH: They disagreed about Deathly Hallows (if they are real or not), they disagreed about location of the Horcrux (it is at Hogwarts or not), they disagreed about Harry`s wand (did Harry saved himself or acted his wand on its own), they disagreed on Occlumency (should Harry use the knowledge or ignore it).
Clearly Harry was right every single time and Hermione was wrong. And all those are extremelly important issues.

So, I think you are wrong in your statement that they never disagree. And you are definitely wrong in believing that Hermione is always right.
However it is true that they almost never fight.

*Bolding mine
To be fair nobody believed him with that one.

That`s true. I don`t hold it against Hermione. I actually think that it is better that they don`t agree on everything. Important is that they don`t fight every time like R/Hr do. And after all Hermione doesn`t have to be always right.

Quoting my own post:
I never said they never disagree. Nor did I say Hermione is always right.

My point was that even if Harry/Hermione fight about IMPORTANT issues that effect the plot they don't fight immaturely like R/Hr.
(I mean come on, as jealous as Ginny might be, even she doesn't attack her man with birds. Just another proof that R/Hr bring out the worst in each other)

And H/Hr disagreements never get in the way of their friendship.

That would have been pretty close to perfection. She could have done it too -- that was the final "chemical wedding" (see the alchemy in DH thread) in Deathly Hallows. Unfortunately JKR had decided on R/Hr and H/G before she wrote anything else - but IMO there's no question she gave H/Hr the single deepest, most meaningful relationship that we actually SEE in the books. It's a shame that she couldn't see them as potential love-mates the way we do. After thinking about this the past 3 weeks, it seems to me she went OBHWF simply to give Harry an uncomplicated happy ending. But IMO she could have done the same thing by doing the EMMA twist -- having Harry discover that not only were R/Hr not really a couple but that he himself had deeper feelings for Hermione than he had ever considered (because Harry never considered how he felt about Hermione until Ron came back and Harry blurted out that he loved her like a sister). Luna would have served perfectly as Ron's love interest in that scenario, because she appreciated him just as he was all along.

It's incredibly ironic, IMO, that Harmonians believed JKR was writing what she likes to read -- which, if you use EMMA as a guide, and the Peter Wimsey/Harriet Vane mysteries, is stories in which the protagonist suddenly comes to realize that the person who's been with him/her all along is their true love. OBHWF is pretty much the antithesis of that. Oh well. JKR's loss is fanon's gain

Your reply was brilliant and was exactly the way I would have hoped the ending to be for the Harry Potter series. Alas, Rowling would have rathered give everyone something uncomplicated and what you see is what you get rather than meaningful and deep since our society so clearly favors the former.

~Alexius

That was really a great post, and you are so right. Godrics Hollow is a culmination of everything we had ever said about Harry and Hermione's realationship. In that chapter everything was just so pure, tender, and perfect.

Something I really love about Deathly Hallows is that we already see that Harry and Hermione have a strong emotional bond and connection. But there is that scene where Hermione brushes her hand on Harry's head and he closes his eyes at her touch. This tells me that while there emotional realationship is as strong as it is, there physical connection could be just as powerful. All they have to do is give eachother the chance to let it happen.

That's exactly how that scene affected me too. That's not a brotherly reaction to a girl brushing her hand across your hair. Harry's feelings for Hermione, whether he understands them or not, come across as being something beyond fraternal feelings. The big issue IMO is whether JKR understands how she wrote that scene. If Harry's feelings were 100% brotherly, it ought to have read something like, "Hermione brushed her hand over Harry's hair and he smiled." The eye-closing is a very romantic image. So if she was going for a fraternal feeling there, she didn't achieve it.

Scenes like this make me wonder if JKR is brilliant or mental. She adds so many Harmony moments, and then she gives us that horrible excuse for an epilogue at the end. I just don't get it.

I could, very simply, be this:

She's spent over a decade with these characters, dreaming up scenes, keeping notes, etc...She might be so used to thinking of them as friends that she could write scenes like this not even realizing how the reader could easily interpret it. I've seen boys and girls in high school who are just friends yet who can hold each other and get physical with one another so that if you didn't know them, you'd think they were bf/gf.

Of course, this doesn't translate directly into fiction, but since no one here is arguing that she wrote the romances *well,* I think it's safe to hypothesize how things might have happened.

That was a really brillant post indeed, platonia



What's even worse is that JKR fell for it rather than try doing what most well-known authors try to do: make the readers' brains WORK, WORK and WORK. Readers don't care if it's deep and a compliacted as long as there's a strong meaning behind such thing.

Then, people complain why our society is rotting our brains. Going for an easy way out is one of the reasons why the society sucks when we humans always need depth and meaning.


Godric's Hollow was the perfection, nothing less. I've never read any better romantic scene between two characters who are so much compatible with each other. I also wonder if JKR knows what she is writing there because such deliberate mistake can't be forgiven when she was on the verge of finishing one of the greatest stories ever between a boy and a girl without ever straying far from Harry's main objective of defeating Voldemort.

The only thing missing was the icing on the cake, or should I say the cherry on the sundae, also known as a sealing kiss to complete Harry's and Hermione's path towards the final reunion of two soulmates. I sure wanted to see the same kind of love relationship I've seen in many movies, animes and TV series, but in a better light of course. I only wished JK would see it the way we do, so that the final ship would have deserved a loud round of cheers and applauses from everyone for all the memorable moments leading to a great finish (that reminds me of the final scene of Titanic).

I agree with DANNYBOY -"Then, people complain why our society is rotting our brains. Going for an easy way out is one of the reasons why the society sucks when we humans always need depth and meaning."

Harry Potter has officially ruined our society. Shame on JKR.

Ok seriously, just because you didnt like the pairings didnt mean that they werent deep and meaningful for other people. What your doing is called "being bitter." Listen I dont care if you hate the ships. But to make it out so that the only people who do like OBHWF are shallow, or to accuse them of "ruining" society is just wrong. In fact this statement really offends me in a horrible way. I am absolutely outraged. Actually, Im taking this to an extreme. This warrants a from me. Shame on you.






(Acutally Im not mad, Its just ever since Ive found that ban smiley Ive been wanting to use it and I finally got to. Needless to say, Im thrilled- Also, getting to say Shame On..... twice was also fun)

I don't understand why the Godric's Hollow scene didn't have Ron.
The fact that Ron was absent, perfectly set the stage for H/Hr.
If wasn't meant to be a romantic moment between them why not include Ron?

I think this could very well be it, actually. Harry and Hermione had been in JK's mind for a long time, and they had always been just platonic friends. Everbody who reads a scene sees it through a filter; it's probably safe to assume that JK does that too when she writes them, in this case the "just friends" filter. And that's why she's so astounded to find that there are actually H/Hr shippers - her filter is just different. She just doesn't see that other possibility. In that sense, shipping debates can be a little pointless...

And yes, platonic friendships can be physically intense. Me and my best friend cuddle and touch and hug each other all over the place, but we're as siblinglike as they come. It happens, and it doesn't have to point in a romantic direction.

Well no one here is really saying that just because Harry and Hermione are physically close that they have to be paired up romantically. Its just that in the particular scene in Godrics Hollow, they were so emotionally connected and the physical closeness just added to the whole picture. Something like that can have romantic connations. But not limited to.

Yeah, Godric's Hollow was one of the strongest scenes in DH. I loved it. (Although as a trioshipper, I would've loved it better if Ron had been there... and if they had gone back to the tent to make sweet threesome love! But *cough* that's neither here nor there *writes fanfic*)

I totally understand why Godric's Hollow is a very Harmonian scene. It's deep, it's intense, it's emotional, it's two people connecting mind to mind. On the other hand, I can also see that, in itself, there's not necessarily more there than just a very deep friendship. And that... is probably what JK was going for.

*Bolding mine

Well if she did than she could have cut out the hand holding and romantic imagery. Because seriously, my best friend in the world is a guy, and I could never see myself holding his hand like that. We do however act really physical with eachother. But holding hands is very couple-ish so if she was going for platonic she failed IMO.

And I'm not talking about the graveyard scene. I'm talking about this:

the way you describe harmony friendship with the words "just very deep friendship" just show how you interpret harmony relationship in different way

because to me, even ron/harry friendship not as close as harmony friendship
harry and hermione in front of harry's parents graveyard
... seriously!!! the way JKR write male/female friendship is more than "just"
harry/hermione have this beautiful and deep friendship that (I BET MY MONEY) will make their BF/hubby and GF/wife jealous and feel insecure

there are my other favorite couples on screen in asian tv series like harmony in graveyard LOL
I'm not mad to JKR, I thank her alot to make harmony as definition of true friendship
I'm not fan of trio harry/ron/hermione ... as trio, I don't feel their bond that deep

*nods* Yeah, perception at its best once more, as usual when it comes to shipping. My best friend is a guy, too, and I do hold his hand like that; it's the beauty of mankind: we're all so different. JK just didn't see the multi-interpretability she inserted in these scenes the way Harmonians do. At the end of the day, people see what they want to see.

Commenting on the hald-holding...I'm another of those who would not hold the hand of their best female friend. I do hug her, and more than once it also led to our mutual friends teasing us, but we never hold hands. Never.

Wow! My Internet does a bunk for two weeks, and then I come back, and.... again, wow. It's like the world's gone crazy (but in a good way!)

Again, thank you to everyone who liked the analysis. I know some of you don't agree, but I'm still grateful for the encouragement.

I'm still a little dazed.

Haha you leave and your thread explodes! But again thanks for your essay! It made me see that while all book 1-6 had those subtle moments us Harmonians love, DH had blatant instances about those subtle moments!

Like the finishing sentances, silent communication, the "Do you trust me?" line?, Harry looking for Hermione's approval with Kreacher and so much mroe!

Hi Padfoot,I just finished re-reading your essay and few things in part five of your essay really struck me as to why we should be greatful for what we do have in H/Hr's relationship. We may have lost what would have been a fariytale ending in seeing H/Hr married to eachother,we have something even better. Her love for him remained constant throughout the series and even after she kisses Ron,Harry is still her top priority. Regardless of their marriages to Ron and Ginny,H/Hr's bond can never be broken and I think Ron saw that,which is why I feel he didn't believe Harry's "sister" line in the Silver Doe chapter. You point out very clearly that Harry made the only logical choice of marrying Ginny,because he had already lost Hermione to Ron. However is that really the case? They both felt they had lost the other to Ron and Ginny and since Harry never asked Hermione about her feelings for him or Ron,he thinks she was in love with Ron the whole time.

You have a fair point that while Hermione would always love Harry,she started to grow to love Ron and in order for her to finally go to Ron at the end,he had to start showing some of the same qualities she already loved about Harry. I'm just sorry that Ron didn't show them from the beginning and maybe I could have accepted Ron as a choice for her if he showed her the same respect Harry did. Harry never belittled her abilities and that's why I have a hard time accepting Ron's eleventh hour turnover from jerk to caring suitor. Of course I guess that's the point seeing as this is a bittersweet lovestory,the hero looses the heroine due to a set circumstances. After reading your essay,it is a victory for us as well,because it wasn't a sugary sweet fairytale and H/Hr's lovestory goes beyond that. It didn't have to end with them being together to show their love for one another. It's just seeing what they had to give up is the most painful to read. Ron wins the girl,but it's not a cut and dry victory his fans were hoping it would be. If it was Hermione would have agreed that Harry was leading them nowhere and would have left with him when he stormed out of the tent. Yet she stayed behind with Harry,not out of duty but because she loved him.


I hope future readers who are about to read the series will either love H/Hr's relationship and see the beauty in it or they'll think marrying into the Weasley family is an ideal option,since they can provide a ready-made family for H/Hr.I'm just glad there are readers like yourself that look deeper than what's in the text and find the clues to explain why H/Hr's bittersweet story is a great backdrop to the war. It doesn't overshadow Harry's mission,but surely without Hermione's help,he would have failed. It's a tragic lovestory,however even after marrying into the Weasley family,their love for eachother never went away. Brilliant essay and it made me cry in some parts. DH was our bible afterall and it showed that H/Hr's relationship was the saddest and the strongest.

thewall, I completely agree with your post. I am quite convinced that all what kept Harrya nd Hermione apart was in their heads, as he thought she loved ron and she thought he loved Ginny. But fro what I've seen in the books, is that true? To me, it's not.

I agree with you Harry85... I am also quite convinced that the only thing that kept them apart is in their heads... I mean there was a lot of chance for them to build up a beautiful romance... but I guess they have this idea the other one is in love with another person... Speaking of another person... I just remembered JK's quote from the IoD... where she said that "Hermione will see herself closely entwined with another person" I think that sort of explains it...

right on sistah! i think she gave a little too much away there... hah! that about sinks R/Hr doesn't it?

Sadly it didn't. I wish it did though, lol.

Harry85 could you please not reply to posts just to say that you agree? And also could you stop with the constant one-liners? Its just I've seen this is many threads and I feel it should be noted.

Anyway, this thread just goes to show that even if we cant enjoy the outcome of the ships, doesnt mean we cant enjoy Harry and Hermione's realationship in canon. Someone said it in another thread, R/Hr and H/G just sort of happend. It was there, its done. No slowly maturing realationships (that we see at least), no emotional depth to them. Theres no doubt that Harry and Hermione's realationship had it. It really was the most developed. So dont feel so disheartned Harmonians! We have a lot going for us despite what happend.

Apparently, it didn't happen ... but it kind of proves that there really is something between H/Hr that, well, just didn't end up the way it should be...



Yup... Im really proud with Harmony because of all the relationships... it was the most developed and it even overshadowed H/G... which was the canon ship... with OBHWF it really did just happened... and it didn't actually made an impact for the non-shippers, the ordinary readers, I mean... And every Harmony moment just surpassed OBHWF in every level... and that's why I know quite a lot of non-shippers who were disappointed with H/Hr not happening... and even my Heron friends agreed that R/H kiss had no impact to them... though they were happy that it was made canon...

Wow! This is the most amazing thread (not that I've had time to read it all, but I've certainly read Padfoot-Lives's brilliant five part list of H/Hr moments in DH. Someone else may have made this comment already, and apologies if I'm plagiarising you, but - it strikes me that if Jo was really set on bringing Ron and Hermione together by the end, and Harry and Ginny, 15 or 16 years ago (and I don't deny that she was), then she might have been able to make it a tiny bit clearer by not including a whole bunch of anvil-sized hints even throughout the last book which suggest that Hermione and Harry might after all have something going for them.

It occurs to me that to let one or two H/Hr hints slip through the net might be forgiven as accidental (after all, they are best friends, no one denies that), but to let over 180 slip through seems like carelessness, and then to explain it all by "she's like a sister to me" doesn't really sound too convincing. And of course Hermione never says the same about Harry, does she? I wonder why not...

Unless of course...

As others have no doubt pointed out, I don't recall (from my one reading of it over a month ago) that Jo says that Ron and Hermione are married in the epilogue, nor that Harry and Ginny are (although that's certainly implied). Nor does she say these marriages are happy (although Herons and Chocos would argue that "all was well" covers that one off). The fact that Harry and Hermione don't exchange a single word to each other in the epilogue might (if you were really diehard delusional) set off a whole lot of alarm bells - why are they not talking? Have they fallen out with each other? Or do they share a terrible secret?

It's probably stretching it a bit to suggest that the epilogue scene hides lots of nefarious intrigue between Harry and Hermione, but it's not impossible, and Jo very kindly brought the whole thing to a halt with them both still alive. I reckon she did this deliberately (well, she had to stop it somewhere I suppose), knowing that the "very significant part of [her] readership" which loved/loves H/Hr would be well up to writing their own versions of what happened during the 19-year-gap and afterwards. I've read some fantastic ones already and no doubt there are more to come.