ADMIN NOTES:

Post your (non-debate) reactions here. If that thread's already been locked by the time you get there, then check its first or last post for a link to its succeeding thread. Mods would move new posts to that thread; here's why.

Cross-linking this essay's parts, thanks to lovesharry's help.
DO NOT TURN this thread into a shipping debate. I'll look over this and remove "debate-y" posts later.

Part 2, Part 3, Part 4, Part 5

~gal-texter Jun2008






I know some of you out there don’t want to read the seventh book, but just want to hear about/read the Harmonian moments. Then there are others (like me) who just want to reread the H/Hr stuff in DH and enjoy a happy, feel-good hour or two.

So I thought that I’d make an attempt to collect together ALL the H/Hr quotes in the book and put them here in one place. I know that they’re scattered all over this forum and everyone’s been picking them out, but I just thought people might like having them all together to reread whenever the OBHWF depression hits.

Most of all, though, I wanted to try and show how, no matter how delusional it seems (and yes, I’m sure I must be crazy to still think Harmony ought to be sailing), there is still evidence in these books that Harry and Hermione were in love with one another, even if Harry never truly acknowledged it.

This will be long (more than one post)! However, here’s Part One of ‘H/Hr in DH.’

The quotes are arranged chronologically; I’ve put in the page number but not chapter title. All the page numbers are from the UK/British edition of DH, but the extracts have mostly American spelling.


Pg 19

He had never learned how to repair wounds and now he came to think of it – particularly in light of his immediate plans – this seemed a serious flaw in his magical education. Making a mental note to ask Hermione how it was done, he used a large wad of toilet paper to mop up…

Hah. Not even one page into Harry’s point of view in the book, and he’s already thinking of her! Where’s Ron? Certainly not here.


Pg 24

The idea of a teenage Dumbledore was simply odd, like trying to imagine a stupid Hermione or a friendly Blast-Ended Skrewt.

Again, where’s Ron? *looks around frantically, but comes up blank* Ron, Ginny and the other Weasleys might as well not exist for all the mention they get in the earlier pages of Harry’s story.


Pg 43

Wrenching open the back door, Harry hurtled into their midst. There was a general cry of greeting as Hermione flung her arms around him, Ron clapped him on the back and Hagrid said, ‘All righ’, Harry? Ready fer the off?’

Oh, Hermione, you do so love hugging the boy! I really and truly find it interesting that in spite of all the times Ron puts his arm around her, Hermione actually seems to hug him (her supposed soulmate) and Harry (her supposed brother) equally. And this, in contrast to the fact that Ginny never, never, ever seems to hug Ron (her actual brother), even after he endures great dangers and returns home safely.

No one will ever convince me that Harry and Hermione have a brother-sisterly relationship.


Pg 46

There was no need for him to say another word; Harry understood the rest of the plan immediately.
‘No!’ he said loudly, his voice ringing through the kitchen. ‘No way!’
‘I told them you’d take it like this,’ said Hermione, with a hint of complacency.

She knows him much too well…



Pg 47

‘…Our only chance is to use decoys. Even You-Know-Who can’t split himself into seven.’
Harry caught Hermione’s eye and looked away at once.

Silent, meaningful, private looks again? Harry, honestly, you shouldn’t be doing this! The only person you’re allowed to have eye-talk with these days is Ginny, but of course, she won’t understand much, so I don’t blame you. Why not catch Ron’s eye, though? He knows about Horcruxes, too! Really, Harry, you’re making it a tad obvious that you consider Hermione up to your level and Ron… well… not quite there.

‘So, Potter – some of your hair, if you please.’
Harry glanced at Ron, who grimaced at him in a just-do-it sort of way.

Well done, Harry! Just what you need to do to cover up your subconscious lapse two lines previously! You can’t dare look at Hermione again.



Pgs 47-48

Harry dropped the hair into the mud-like liquid. The moment it made contact with its surface the Potion began to froth and smoke then, all at once, it turned a clear, bright gold.
‘Ooh, you look much tastier than Crabbe and Goyle, Harry,’ said Hermione, before catching sight of Ron’s raised eyebrows, blushing slightly and saying, ‘oh, you know what I mean – Goyle’s Potion looked like bogies.’

Priceless! Priceless, I tell you! Hermione and Harry have way too much innuendo creeping out in their associations with one another; it would be downright wrong if people called it brother-sisterly!

She says something dodgy, Ron isn’t happy about it (has anyone ever considered that Ron might have reason to be jealous of the relationship between his two friends?), and dear Hermione blushes. Priceless.



Pg 49

He felt like asking them to show a little more respect for his privacy as they all began stripping off with impunity, clearly much more at ease with displaying his body than they would have been with their own.

Hee, hee! She knows what he looks like stark naked (without a doubt, she peeked, even if she didn’t strip off her underwear. Besides, a bra on a man’s chest? Sorry, not happening.) So Hermione knows what Harry looks like naked, Harry’s no doubt seen her underclothes (turn-on much? Yes, other people saw it all too, but we’re talking about a *scoff* brother and sister here!)… oh, our poor minds!



Pg 52

…his terror for the others was paramount.

They’re under attack, and he’s terrified for his friends. Yes, all of them, but Hermione is one of them, so I think this needs to be noted at least once.



Pg 62

He turned to Ginny and she answered his unspoken plea for information at once.

Good God, boy! You’re supposed to be in love with this girl and you haven’t seen her for an entire month! And yet, upon seeing her for the first time, you don’t even react to her presence? It seems to me, Harry, that Ron and Hermione will always be more important to you than Ginny. So much for that. But I suppose she kisses good, right, so having kids with her would be tolerable. How very romantic.



Pgs 64-65

There was a scuffling outside. Lupin dived for the back door; Harry leapt over Hagrid’s legs, and sprinted into the yard.
Two figures appeared in the yard and as Harry ran towards them he realized they were Hermione, now returning to her normal appearance, and Kingsley, both clutching a bent coat hanger. Hermione flung herself into Harry’s arms, but Kingsley showed no pleasure at the sight of any of them. Over Hermione’s shoulder Harry saw him raise his wand and point it at Lupin’s chest.

Throw yourself at him, Hermione, we love it! What I love about this particular hug is two major things:

One—that instead of Hermione ‘flinging her arms around Harry’, as is generally the way it’s written, she flings herself into his arms. I.e. Harry runs towards her, and snatches her up into a hug. So, so romantic, in my opinion.

Two—they don’t let go for a while. Just like with the hug at the end of HBP, they’re holding one another long enough for Harry to actually witness an entire exchange happening over her shoulder.



Pg 68

‘You’re OK,’ [Ron] mumbled [to both Harry and Hermione], before Hermione flew at him and hugged him tightly.
‘I thought – I thought –’
‘’M all right,’ said Ron, patting her on the back, ‘’M fine.’

In a way, it’s sweet. Just the sort of thing best friends ought to do. And, to be fair, it’s an extended hug as well. But the contrast in the impact of this hug to the impact of the H/Hr one is ludicrous. Romantic? Ron patting her on the back? Oh, yes, hideously so. Brings to mind the POA hug, where he’s ‘terrified’ and ‘pats her on the head’. Sizzling, deeply bonded lovers, these two. No questions there.



Pg 75

Harry stood shaking in the darkness, clutching the gate into the garden, his heart racing, his scar still tingling. It was several moments before he realized that Ron and Hermione were at his side.
‘Harry, come back in the house,’ Hermione whispered. ‘You aren’t still thinking of leaving?’
‘Yeah, you’ve got to stay, mate,’ said Ron, thumping Harry on the back.
‘Are you all right?’ Hermione said, close enough now to look into Harry’s face. ‘You look awful!’
‘Well,’ said Harry shakily, ‘I probably look better than Ollivander…’
When he had finished telling them what he had seen, Ron looked appalled, but Hermione downright terrified.
‘But it was supposed to have stopped! Your scar – it wasn’t supposed to do this any more! You mustn’t let that connection open up again – Dumbledore wanted you to close your mind!’
When he did not reply, she gripped his arm.

How close is she, exactly, to see his face so clearly in the ‘darkness’?

And so we have resumed that age-old habit of clutching his arm! Don’t worry, though, Hermione! All your arm-grabbing hasn’t been in vain… soon, Harry’s going to begin clutching your hand all the freaking time!

Before DH came out, I remember someone in a forum once asking whose arm Hermione would grab in a sticky situation if she was dating Ron. I think this book proves (though not necessarily with this extract) that when push comes to shove, madly in love with Ron and his laundry or not, Hermione still goes for Harry.



Pg 77

He forced himself to look directly into [Mrs. Weasley’s eyes], noticing as he did so that they were precisely the same shade of brown as Ginny’s. This did not help.

Oh, well, that’s it then, isn’t it? Harmony is sunk for good. Goodness me, Ginny has hair the same color as his mother and eyes the same color as his mother figure, so, of course, that means Harry and Ginny are meant to be. It’s Lily and James all over again! Not to mention Oedipus…



Pg 82

‘…They probably Transfigured Moody and stuffed him –’
‘Don’t!’ squealed Hermione. Startled, Harry looked over just in time to see her burst into tears over her copy of Spellman’s Syllabary.
‘Oh, no,’ said Harry, struggling to get up from the old camp bed. ‘Hermione, I wasn’t trying to upset – ’
But with a great creaking of rusty bedsprings Ron bounded off the bed and got there first.

What does this tell me? That Harry apologizes to Hermione when he does something to upset her or something that’s out of order. That he was ready and willing to go to her and comfort her. And that Ron, whom I’m very fond of but who never gave a ###### when Hermione burst into tears before, is suddenly the most considerate and attentive boyfriend in the world. This is where, for me, it really begins: the grotesque tweaking and manipulation of the characters (mostly Ron, whose complete change in demeanor I would have to be a lunatic to attribute wholly to a book about charming teenage witches) to suit the relationship.

Now, these characters belong to JKR and she has every right to do what she pleases with them. But where the R/Hr relationship is concerned, Ron and Hermione are just, well, no longer the Ron and Hermione we love.



Pg 84

‘Listen!’ said Harry again.
‘No, Harry, you listen,’ said Hermione. ‘We’re coming with you. That was decided months ago – years, really.’

Subtext: Ron and I are bonded to you for life, Harry, unlike Ginny, who is only going to be someone for you to hanker after and then marry because she’ll make pretty babies. Also, Ron might take off now and then because he’s only human and he suffers a bit, but I promise you, I’ll never leave you.

And you know what? She never has, and she never does. That, to me, is love. Real, romantic, soul-deep love, in case anyone thinks this is the sort of thing sisters do for their brothers. As a sister, I’d just like to say… no. No, no, a thousand times, no.

Ron got back off the bed, put his arm around [Hermione] once more and frowned at Harry as though reproaching him for lack of tact. Harry could not think of anything to say, not least because it was highly unusual for Ron to be teaching anyone else tact.

Highly unusual? *snorts* Try ‘blatant character manipulation’, Harry. But I’ll forgive you for that gross understatement. It was sweet of you to apologize for upsetting Hermione again right after this:

‘I – Hermione, I’m sorry – I didn’t –’

Pg 86

…Harry looked from one to the other, unable to say anything. The measures they had taken to protect their families made him realize, more than anything else could have done, that they really were going to come with him and that they knew exactly how dangerous that would be. He wanted to tell them what that meant to him, but he simply could not find the words important enough.

Self-explanatory, really. Ginny will never match up to them in Harry’s eyes (or the reader’s), and considering Hermione’s a girl who isn’t Harry’s actual sister, that makes for a very squee-worthy relationship.



Pg 88

‘But when did you do this?’ Harry asked, regarding Hermione with a mixture of admiration and incredulity.

Short and sweet. He admires her. Always has, even back before Ron never bothered to appreciate her intelligence.



Pg 98

‘Harry, will you come in here a moment?’
It was Ginny. Ron came to an abrupt halt, but Hermione took him by the elbow and tugged him up the stairs. Feeling nervous, Harry followed Ginny into her room.

This bit is followed by the H/G kiss that, in my book, totally and irrevocably proves that Harry and Ginny’s relationship is nothing but hormones and forgetfulness, and it’s completely ludicrous that it should have lasted into a long marriage.

However, this bit in particular has Hermione dragging Ron away from them, to leave them alone. One might wonder why she would do this if she is, in fact, truly in love with Harry, when Ron has provided her with a perfect excuse to stay and make sure Harry and Ginny don’t get up to any hanky-panky.

This is where my delusional mind comes in. I realize this is probably not how it’s supposed to be, but I prefer to imagine it like this: to me, Harry and Hermione are in love with one another. However, Hermione, convinced after the Ginny-and-Harry’s-hormones thing that Harry’s in love with Ginny, clings to the illusion that she can find love with Ron, who likes her well enough but who treats her rather badly now and then. Harry, discovering R/Hr and believing Hermione is happy with Ron, decides he’ll stick with Ginny, because, after all, he’s fond of her and attracted to her.

Basically, that they’re always at cross-purposes, believing the other will be happy with someone else.

It’s fun to be delusional (and dramatic)!

Another note: Harry is nervous when he follows Ginny into her room. Not excited. Not pleasurably nervous. Just plain nervous. He is never going to be as comfortable with her as he is with Hermione.



Pg 109

‘It belongs to Harry!’ said Hermione hotly. ‘It chose him, he was the one who found it, it came to him out of the Sorting Hat –’

Ah, sweet Hermione (a veritable lioness) launching herself to her lion’s defense because she thinks he’s being cheated out of what’s rightfully his.



Pg 114

‘Ron, you know full well Harry and I were brought up by Muggles!’ said Hermione.

Just a little something that illustrates to me how much H/Hr have in common (and it’s something Ron or Ginny will never understand).



Pg 121

In the front row, Mrs Weasley and Madame Delacour were both sobbing quietly into scraps of lace. Trumpet-like sounds from the back of the marquee told everyone that Hagrid had taken out one of his own tablecloth-sized handkerchiefs. Hermione turned and beamed at Harry; her eyes, too, were full of tears.
‘…then I declare you bonded for life.’

There is no way this could have been an accident. No bloody way. First off, that very quote is so insensibly romantic and deep and profound that there’s no way JKR or her editors could have missed the way it comes across. Secondly, it would have been insanely easy to instead write something along the lines of

Ginny turned her head and beamed across at Harry; her eyes, too, were full of tears.
‘…then I declare you bonded for life.’

Or

Out of the corner of his eye, Harry saw Ron and Hermione look at one another; Hermione’s eyes, too, were full of tears as they met Ron’s.
‘…then I declare you bonded for life.’

No! No, it’s Harry and Hermione who have that moment. Why? Because that quote in bold is the very epitome of the friendship, attraction and deep, romantic love that characterizes the relationship between these two characters. If ever there was a (chemical) wedding between Sulfur and Mercury in DH, this is it.

And they wonder why we’re still H/Hr shippers…



Pg 135

Harry and Hermione jumped to their feet and drew their wands… Then somebody screamed.
Harry and Hermione threw themselves into the panicking crowd. Guests were sprinting in all directions; many were Disapparating; the protective enchantments around The Burrow had broken.
<snip>
“Ron! Ron!” Hermione called, half sobbing as she and Harry were buffeted by terrified guests: Harry seized her hand to make sure they weren’t separated… Harry felt her turn on the spot; sight and sound were extinguished as darkness pressed in upon him; all he could feel was Hermione’s hand…

Harry and Hermione work together in tandem and in partnership, looking for and taking care of Ron like parents would their son. Harry also begins what I will henceforward call HUTKAFHH (Harry Unable to Keep Away from Hermione’s Hand). I mean, they’ve been in danger before. Why is he suddenly as determined to clutch her hand as she has always been to clutch his arm? Can he possibly be realizing how much he loves her? (*snort* brotherly love or not…)



Pg 145

‘Harry, do you want your toothbrush? I’ve got it here.’
‘Yeah, great, thanks,’ he said, fighting to keep his voice casual as he stood up to let her in.

Just a sweet, domestic scene. The kind of domestic scene that’s infinitely sweeter and less chauvinistic than laundering someone’s underpants.



Pg 146

Her arm curved to the floor, her fingers inches from Ron’s. Harry wondered whether they had fallen asleep holding hands. The idea made him feel strangely lonely.

He doesn’t say ‘the idea made him miss Ginny’. No, it makes him strangely lonely. I don’t think Harry’s very happy with the idea of Ron and Hermione being together. I think (though, again, I must be delusional to think so) he wishes he were the one who had fallen asleep holding Hermione’s hand.



Pg 151

‘Harry? Harry! Harry!’
‘I’m here!’ he called. ‘What’s happened?’
There was a clatter of footsteps outside the door, and Hermione burst inside.
‘We woke up and didn’t know where you were!’ she said breathlessly. She turned and shouted over her shoulder, ‘Ron! I’ve found him!’
<snip>
‘Harry, don’t just disappear, please, we were terrified…

Really, Hermione, you’re making it far too obvious that you’re in love with this boy! Don’t panic so much—you might make Ron (who is, I believe, ‘annoyed’ during this scene) suspicious!

…Why did you come up here, anyway?’ She gazed around the ransacked room. ‘What have you been doing?’
‘Look what I’ve just found.’
He held out his mother’s letter. Hermione took it and read it while Harry watched her. When she reached the end of the page, she looked up at him.
‘Oh, Harry…’
‘And there’s this, too.’
He handed her the torn photograph, and Hermione smiled at the baby zooming in and out of sight on the toy broom.

There is something just so incredibly wonderful about this scene. Hermione’s terrified when she can’t find Harry, afraid something may have happened to him. Harry shows her something intensely personal (the only person that we know of he shows the letter or photograph to is Hermione) and she’s moved by the letter and touched by the photograph of baby Harry. It seems impossible that H/G or R/Hr could ever share a moment as intensely personal and private as this.



Pg 154

Harry shook his head, pointing at Regulus’s sign. She read it, then clutched Harry’s arm so tightly that he winced.

Old habits, old habits… eager much, Hermione?


Pg 162

‘Oh, Kreacher!’ wailed Hermione, who was crying. She dropped to her knees beside the elf and tried to hug him. At once he was on his feet, cringing away from her, obviously repulsed.
‘The Mudblood touched Kreacher, he will not allow it, what would his mistress say?’
‘I told you not to call her “Mudblood”!’ snarled Harry…

Ron, where the heck are you? Isn’t it your job to defend Hermione, especially against ‘Mudblood’ attacks? Harry sounds rather angry about it, too, do you think he might have a thing for her? You really should have said something—now she might think Harry cares more about her than you do!

And she won’t be the only one to think so.



Pg 164

‘Kreacher, I am going to ask you to do something,’ said Harry. He glanced at Hermione for assistance: he wanted to give the order kindly, but at the same time, he could not pretend that it was not an order. However, the change in his tone seems to have gained her approval: she smiled encouragingly.

Talk about anvils. Because, really, teenage brothers do go out of their way to better themselves and seek the approval of their teenage sisters.



Pg 193

‘Harry, you keep talking about what your wand did,’ said Hermione, ‘but you made it happen! Why are you so determined not to take responsibility for your own power?’
‘Because I know it wasn’t me! And so does Voldemort, Hermione! We both know what really happened!’
They glared at each other…

This is what real sexual tension and what mature conflict is about—arguing over things that really matter, not mindless unimportant rubbish, and standing really close to one another in a bathroom, breathing hard, glaring… oh, my mind!



Pg 214

‘I’m behind you,’ he whispered in Hermione’s ear.

Are you indeed, Harry? I suppose you ought to be relieved, then, that most of us know the context of this quote, else you’d be in a spot of trouble, wouldn’t you?

Not to mention we’re back to the whispering-and-breathing-in-each-other’s-ears thing.



Pg 217

A silver otter burst from the end of Hermione’s wand and swam gracefully through the air to join the stag.

Ah, Patronuses. There they go, gliding alongside one another, protecting Harry and Hermione and leading innocent people to freedom. Why don’t they just get married in mid-air while they’re at it?


*sighs*

And now, I shall leave you here for the moment. Part Two of my analysis and dissection of DH will be up soon!


Part 2- gal-texter

keep it up, mate. I love all of these moments, and I agree with your opinions on them! Yeah, Harmony was in for an hell of a wonderful relationship, if only JK had wanted to make it happen...

Ah good job Padfoot_Lives that's a nice collection of H/Hr moments. I honestly felt there was more H/Hr moments in this book than H/G and R/Hr moments together. Plus after reading the Godric's Hollow chapter I was like this is scene is more meaningful than any R/Hr or H/G moment in the series.

The OBHWF got their canon I suppose, but we got something way better. I think that part at Fleur's wedding really hit me hard about it.

Thank you for this. I have not read the book and I will not be reading it, so this is as close as I'll get.

Wonderful job with the quotes!

I've been wondering, is it legal or okay to do a rewrite of Deathly Hallows and perhaps also Half-Blood Prince for fan-fiction? As perhaps some kind of "alternate" canon for H/Hr shippers which would make H/Hr work out? In my opinion, the main plotline is mostly good, despite the strange last battle with Voldy and a few other things.

One could keep the general flow of events intact and change the H/Hr outcome. Obviously, there are a lot of scenes and quotes that would support such a thing. There are so many good moments in the story where they make eye contact, physical contact, and basically show a very tight bond, and JKR has to go and offset it by saying Harry likes her as a "sister" and making them not even talk to each other for "loads of nights" while Ron was gone. Talk about out of character!

All it would take is some slight changes and tweaks to the story to make it work out, and perhaps for good measure HBP could be taken care of too. But I'm interested in seeing if others think the idea is worthwhile or even legal, as it would be messing with "canon."

haha ...

And still people wonder why we ship H/Hr even after DH.

You're commentating is absolutely hilarious not to mention cute . "...eager much Hermione"

You know what, after this past week of reading DH and coming on PK arguing/giving out our opinions etc. I've come to a conclusion that I'm happy Rowling never even touch our H/Hr with a 10 metre pole... it would have been disasterous. I'm just going to forget the epilogue and keep all our H/Hr moments and live my life as delusional as possible.

Cheers

*runs off to read fanfics*

Thanks for the time to type it and I love your comment
Oh good I have never look at my bro this way I swear

Thinking of it, I really don't understand how a couple of things didn't lead to HHr. Why Hermione beamed at Harry, teary-eyed, at the wedding, and not at ron, if she is in love with the redhead? Is her looking at Harry while hearing the officer say "you're bonded for life" an hint that they love each other truly, and romatically, and always will no matter who the marry in the end?

And, why is Harry so upset at the thought of his firends falling asleep holding hands, if he's in love with ginny? He had to be ahppy for them, but he is not...

I couldn't believe my eyes when I read this...This is exactly how I feel. Call me the worst kind of delusional , but this is the way I see the situation as well. If the H/Hr scenes in DH had been written differently, or between R/Hr or H/G instead, then perhaps we wouldn't have a case. I am DELUSIONAL and PROUD!!!! Harry still sees Ginny as an escape, but his heart will always belong to Hermione.





Another great moment. This cannot be a mistake. I think Rowling wanted to keep H/G and R/H together to show the next generation in the epilogue. But this part is telling us she believes Harry and Hermione are bonded for life, even if they will not become man and wife.

Regarding the part where he feels "strangely lonely" when he thinks Ron and Hermione have been holding hands. When I read this I was like WTF? Perfect time to mention Ginny and Rowling chooses not to. Why? You know, Harry struggled with the idea of his friends getting together in HBP, and I really don't see him actually liking the idea in DH. He tries to comfort Hermione in one scene and Ron "gets there first". In the chapter The Thief (which I am sure you will mention) Harry looks at Hermione to ask her a question but the question "died in his throat" as he sees Hermione watching Ron with "tenderness in her expression". He felt "almost as if he had surprised her in the act of kissing him". In other words, he felt as if he was intruding. His response? "'So, have you got it?' Harry asked her, partly to remind her that he was still there" (bold is mine) US pages 274-275.

Our ship may have sunk in that Harry and Hermione don't get married and have kids. But I still feel that they DO love eachother, and if we listed quotes from all the books it would take DAYS to finish.

ADMIN NOTE:

Previous Part, Next Part

DO NOT TURN this thread into a shipping debate. I'll look over this and remove "debate-y" posts later.
-gal-texter, 2Jun2008





Hello, everyone! I’m back with Part Two of ‘H/Hr in DH’. Thanks for all the encouragement and comments you’ve posted so far—they’ve helped enormously! And I’m hugely relieved that I’m not the only ‘delusional’ one left!

On with the show…

The quotes are arranged chronologically; I’ve put in the page number but not chapter title. All the page numbers are from the UK/British edition of DH, but the extracts have mostly American spelling.


Pg 219

Harry saw Yaxley’s head turn, saw an inkling of the truth dawn in that brutish face.
‘Come on!’ Harry shouted at Hermione; he seized her hand and they jumped into the fireplace together as Yaxley’s curse sailed over Harry’s head.

HUTKAFHH (or, for those who don’t remember: Harry Unable to Keep Away from Hermione’s Hand). This is most certainly not an issue of Disapparition. He doesn’t grab her hand because they’re about to Disapparate. In fact, given that he’s just bellowed ‘come on’ at her, he doesn’t even need to take her hand. But he does. Oh, how I adore this boy.


Pg 223

…Harry imagined the house-elf busying himself over the steak and kidney pie that Harry, Ron and Hermione would never eat.
‘Harry, I’m sorry, I’m so sorry!’
‘Don’t be stupid, it wasn’t your fault! If anything, it was mine…’

Harry and Hermione are never afraid to apologize to one another if they know they’ve messed up (which is something I’ve always believed to be essential in a relationship), and Harry, unlike Ron, doesn’t hesitate to admit it when he makes a mistake, especially if Hermione’s feeling guilty about it when she really shouldn’t.


Pg 225

‘… I can’t guarantee it will keep out Vol—’
‘Don’t say the name!’ Ron cut across her, his voice harsh.
Harry and Hermione looked at each other.
‘I’m sorry,’ Ron said, moaning a little as he raised himself to look at them, ‘but it feels like a – a jinx, or something. Can’t we call him You-Know-Who – please?’

I love Ron. I genuinely do (though the romantic, Super Ron of DH annoys me as much as the cruel Ron of HBP did—whatever happened to good old slightly selfish, funny, very human and normal Ron?). And I think JKR is a brilliant writer. But if she meant to show in DH that Ron is worthy of Hermione and Ginny worthy of Harry, well, I don’t think she succeeded.

True, we later find out that there’s a Taboo on Voldemort’s name. But Ron doesn’t know that here, and the Taboo is not his reason for not saying it. To put it bluntly, he’s frightened of the name and he’s never managed to say it.

Once again, Harry and Hermione are on one level—equals—and Ron is on another.


Pg 226

Harry looked over at Hermione and the question he had been about to ask… died in his throat. Hermione was watching Ron fret over the fate of the Cattermoles, and there was such tenderness in her expression that Harry felt almost as if he had surprised her in the act of kissing him.
‘So, have you got it?’ Harry asked her, partly to remind her that he was there.

Oh, Harry, I think you may have misread the situation a bit. Naturally, we can’t dispute that Hermione has some romantic feelings for Ron. But I think her feelings for you, if only you idiots would have bothered to show them at the right time and acknowledge them, are much stronger.

Tenderness does not equal passion or necessarily a soulmate’s love. Tenderness can also equal friendship. Personally, if I had a son or if my younger brother or best male friend was in Ron’s place, I would probably also watch him tenderly while he’s in such a fragile situation. This scene is not pure canon proof that Hermione is love with Ron, at least not in my book. I can easily imagine Mrs. Weasley forgetting briefly that Arthur is by her side if she were fussing over Ron. In fact, I’m positive Lily might have forgotten briefly about James’s presence if her son Harry was bleeding half to death.

Harry (as hedwig07 also points out earlier in this thread) evidently thinks he’s intruding on something very private, and I actually bleed for him here, because he feels like he has to remind Hermione that he’s still there.


Pg 228

…they had nothing to eat except some wild mushrooms that Hermione had collected from amongst the nearest trees and stewed in a billycan. After a couple of mouthfuls, Ron had pushed his portion away, looking queasy; Harry had only persevered to as not to hurt Hermione’s feelings.

Now I’m going to be exceedingly generous here and say that Ron’s not feeling very well, so it’s excusable that he can’t appreciate Hermione’s efforts at such a time.

(Though in reality, I think that if he’s as much in love with her as much as he’s supposed to be, he ought to have persevered so as not to upset her... *stops short* Wait a minute. Just wait one minute. Goodness me, would you look at that? Harry perseveres! Not because he’s dying of hunger, mind you, but simply because he doesn’t want to hurt his… ahem… sister’s feelings. Gosh, I’d kill for a brother like this. Mine would probably do what Ron did.)


Pg 229

Sick images swarmed into Harry’s head and he tried to push these away too, for there was nothing he could do for Kreacher: he and Hermione had already decided against trying to summon him; what if someone from the Ministry came too?

What, is Ron too queasy to be consulted on anything? I don’t think so; he certainly seems to be able to have a nice, healthy conversation with Harry about Gregorovitch a few pages later.

So, Harry and Hermione, I have a question for you: why, if you’re so determined to be sibling-like, do you insist on having these important discussions without Ronald? It’s almost *insert Dolores Umbridge’s incredulous cough here* almost as though you’re a couple having a discussion that you don’t think your injured son ought to be worried by. Also, I daresay you don’t think he’ll care much about Kreacher’s fate, eh? After all, Ron’s main fondness for the elf came about because Kreacher cooks well.


Pg 231

‘I think I’d better take over the watch if you’re so tired you’re falling asleep,’ said Hermione coldly.
‘I can finish the watch!’
‘No, you’re obviously exhausted. Go and lie down.’
She dropped down in the mouth of the tent, looking stubborn. Angry, but wishing to avoid a row, Harry ducked back inside.

Many people might call this an anti-H/Hr moment, but I actually love it. First off, we know perfectly well that Hermione is only ‘coldly’ angry because she’s worried about what might happen to Harry if his mind-bond to Voldemort continues (after all, she was there when Sirius died and she saw the damage the guilt and grief wreaked on Harry). And secondly, we have Harry, hot-tempered Harry, controlling his temper. He rarely does this. In fact, when he’s angry, he almost never holds back. So why restrain himself here?

Well, dear Harry tells us why: because he doesn’t want to fight with Hermione. He has no trouble fighting with Ron and risking alienating him. He probably wouldn’t have a problem fighting with Ginny, either, if she could stop snogging him long enough for him to have a real conversation with her. But he makes a conscious effort here to stay close to Hermione, to not anger or worry her any more.


Pgs 234-235

‘But you can make a brilliant Patronus!’ protested Ron, when Harry arrived back at the tent empty-handed, out of breath, and mouthing the single word ‘Dementors’.
‘I couldn’t… make one,’ he panted, clutching the stitch in his side. ‘Wouldn’t… come.’
<snip>
‘So we still haven’t got any food.’
‘Shut up, Ron,’ snapped Hermione. ‘Harry, what happened? Why do you think you couldn’t make your Patronus? You managed perfectly yesterday!’
‘I don’t know.’
<snip>
Ron kicked a chair leg.
‘What?’ he snarled at Hermione. ‘I’m starving! All I’ve had since I bled half to death is a couple of toadstools!’
‘You go and fight your way through the Dementors, then,’ said Harry, stung.
<snip>
‘Of course!’ cried Hermione…

We Harmonians must be off our heads, mustn’t we? After all, isn’t it obvious that Ron is outstandingly sensitive to Harry and so considerate of Hermione’s (his future wife) feelings? He’s changed so much that he never abuses Hermione anymore, especially not over a matter as trivial as his stomach! And Hermione! How can we say that she cares more for Harry than she does for Ron? After all, she completely ignores Harry here, doesn’t she? She doesn’t bother to find a solution to his Patronus-problem! And she goes to great lengths to assure dearest (for once, in character) Ron that she’ll have his lunch ready in no time, doesn’t she? ‘Sod off, Harry, I don’t care about you! Ron’s starving!’

And before anyone says that Ron’s only being nasty to Hermione (and Harry) because he’s wearing the Horcrux, well, we know Harry’s wearing it. As Harry points out later, we don’t want ‘excuses made for Ron’. He’s been extremely unreasonable and grouchy before, and that’s part of the character we love. We just don’t love (or believe) that this is supposed to be worthy of Hermione.


Pg 236

‘Better?’ asked Hermione.
‘Yeah, loads better!’

Just a sweet moment after Hermione realizes the Horcrux is the problem and Harry takes it off. This sums up the relationship to me. When one is in trouble, the other can always make it ‘loads better’.


Pg 237

Whenever lack of food coincided with Ron’s turn to wear the Horcrux, he became downright unpleasant.
‘So where next?’ was his constant refrain. He did not seem to have any ideas himself, but expected Harry and Hermione to come up with plans while he sat and brooded over the low food supplies. Accordingly, Harry and Hermione spent fruitless hours trying to decide where they might find the other Horcruxes, and how to destroy the one they had already got, their conversations becoming increasingly repetitive, as they had no new information.

D’you know what this reminds me of? This reminds me of Dudley, as a child, expecting everything from Vernon and Petunia, and then, when those things didn’t conform to what he really wanted, turning sulky and angry. Ron’s behavior in these pages is nothing short of a moody adolescent’s, and Harry and Hermione are astonishingly mature and are working, once again, alone together.

And Vernon and Petunia, for all their flaws, loved each other irrevocably and put up with an extraordinary amount from their son.


Pg 240

As the days stretched into weeks, Harry began to suspect that Ron and Hermione were having conversations without, and about, him.

Well, of course they are! The only real conversations Ron and Hermione ever seem to have are apparently about Harry! It makes me wonder what they talked about after they got married.

(‘Ron, did you see Harry at work today? How is he?’; ‘Ah, he’s OK, Hermione, stop harping on it. Bit moody, though, and says he can’t talk to Ginny about it because she won’t understand.’; ‘Ron! You should have stayed with him and talked to him – oh, poor Harry!’; ‘Mum, Dad, can you please stop talking about Uncle Harry and feed us?’; ‘Oh, sorry, Hugo, darling, I just worry about him, you know…’)

And please note that Harry doesn’t like that these two are (or so he thinks) bonding without him. I think he’s gotten so used to having Hermione ‘on his team’, per se, that it upsets him to imagine her growing closer to Ron and leaving him out in the cold. Of course, as we later find out, Hermione is actually trying to keep Ron from being unfair on Harry.

Ron was making no effort to hide his bad mood, and Harry was starting to fear that Hermione, too, was disappointed by his poor leadership. In desperation he tried to think of further Horcrux locations…

Sometimes, Harry, you can be so patently transparent and I adore you for it! So it doesn’t bother you much that Ron’s irritated, but you’re afraid that Hermione might abandon you? So afraid, in fact, that you’re ‘desperate’ to find new leads, just to prove to her that you can do this? Dear me, a little more and someone delusional might think you’re falling in love with this intelligent young woman!


Pg 241

‘– well, don’t bother increasing this, it’s disgusting,’ said Ron.
‘Harry caught the fish and I did my best with it! I notice I’m always the one who ends up sorting out the food; because I’m a girl, I suppose!’

Is this the sort of married life Hermione is supposed to have? Reduced to doing all of Ron’s domestic duties and cooking for him and putting up with his complaints? Frankly, Hermione ought to be shot for putting up with this. Luna would have dealt far better with Ron (she probably would have serenely and calmly left him to fend for himself without saying a word), and this extract also shows that Harry and Hermione, once again, are working together. If Harry and Hermione had married, they would have been equals, working together for each other’s mutual benefit.

It’s astonishing that with each passing page in DH, as long as the characters remain recognizable as the ones we’ve known and loved for ten years, H/Hr proves itself to work much better than R/Hr. And H/G isn’t even on the scene, which is why I’m convinced that Harry only stayed with Ginny after the infatuation wore off because he had lost Hermione.


Pg 242

Goblins! Hermione mouthed at Harry, who nodded.

Pg 244

Inside the tent Harry’s breathing was shallow with excitement: he and Hermione stared at each other, listening as hard as they could.

Sorry? Did I miss something? Did Ron leave the tent and vanish at some point? No… No, wait, he’s still there. Oh, gosh, it looks like they weren’t interested in sharing that moment of excitement with him after all. It was just a moment for the two of them.

Not to mention that if you cut off the ‘listening as hard as they could’ bit of the latter quote, the rest of it sounds distinctly erotic.


Pg 247

[Harry] found himself unable to say more than, ‘Ginny – the sword –’
‘I know!’ said Hermione.

I laughed out loud when I read this. Poor Ginny, placed on the same level of importance as Gryffindor’s sword! And this is when Harry believes she might have been tortured. Contrast this to the scene after Hermione is tortured, where Harry, instead of asking about Griphook and Ollivander immediately (both of whom he needs vital information from), is first and foremost concerned about how Hermione is.


Pg 248

‘… She deserved her punishment, as did the idiot Longbottom and the Lovegood oddity!’
‘Neville is not an idiot and Luna is not an oddity!’ said Hermione.
<snip>
‘Professor Snape sent them into the Forbidden Forest, to do some work for the oaf, Hagrid.’
‘Hagrid’s not an oaf!’ said Hermione shrilly.
<snip>
[Harry] felt relieved; he had been imagining horrors, the Cruciatus Curse at the very least.
<snip>
…‘Goblin-made armor does not require cleaning, simple girl…’
‘Don’t call Hermione simple,’ said Harry.

Oh, a veritable whirlpool of pumpkin pie! Harry doesn’t say a word when Phineas Nigellus is insulting Luna, Neville and even Hagrid. But the moment he calls Hermione ‘simple’, here we have lion Harry, rearing to her defense!

And, of course, he’s ‘relieved’ that Ginny, Luna and Neville weren’t tortured. Who wouldn’t be? But if Harry were really in love with Ginny, I would find the mildness of this reaction inexcusable. He doesn’t ‘sink breathlessly to the floor, weak with relief’. He isn’t even ‘hugely relieved’. He felt relieved. That’s all.


Pg 250

‘I believe the last time I saw the sword of Gryffindor leave its case was when Professor Dumbledore used it to break open a ring.’
Hermione whipped round to look at Harry.

Did Ron die somewhere along the way? The poor boy is being completely ignored by the girl who does prefer his best friend.

And with that, he vanished completely, leaving behind him nothing but his murky backdrop.
‘Harry!’ Hermione cried.
‘I know!’ Harry shouted. Unable to contain himself, he punched the air… [Hermione] threw the bag aside and raised a shining face to Harry.
‘The sword can destroy Horcruxes! Goblin-made blades imbibe only that which strengthens them – Harry, that sword’s impregnated with Basilisk venom!’
‘And Dumbledore didn’t give it to me because he still needed it, he wanted to use it on the locket –’
‘– and he must have realized they wouldn’t let you have it if he put it in his will – ’
‘– so he made a copy – ’
‘– and put a fake in the glass case – ’
‘– and he left the real one… where?’
They gazed at each other…

I could almost squee my own ears off. Just picturing this scene… the two of them facing one another, moving closer and closer, the excitement and triumph rife in the air as they indulge in the classic Harry-and-Hermione habit of finishing each other’s sentences… this was just magic waiting to happen!


Pg 251

…Ron was lying in the shadow of a lower bunk, looking stony.
‘Oh, remembered me, have you?’ he said.
‘What?’
<snip>
‘You two carry on. Don’t let me spoil your fun.’
Perplexed, Harry looked to Hermione for help, but she shook her head, apparently as nonplussed as he was.

Unbelievable. Ron and Hermione are supposed to be so close, and yet she doesn’t have the faintest notion of why he’s angry? The obvious conclusion here would be that they’re not that close, that Hermione doesn’t understand Ron very much more than Harry does.


Pgs 252-253

‘… You wouldn’t be talking like this if you hadn’t been wearing [the locket] all day.’
‘Yeah, he would,’ said Harry, who did not want excuses made for Ron. ‘D’you think I haven’t noticed the two of you whispering behind my back? D’you think I didn’t guess you were thinking this stuff?’
‘Harry, we weren’t – ’
‘Don’t lie!’ Ron hurled at her. ‘You said it too, you said you were disappointed, you said you’d thought he had a bit more to go on than – ’
‘I didn’t say it like that – Harry, I didn’t!’ she cried.
The rain was pounding the tent, tears were pouring down Hermione’s face…

One has to wonder: why is she crying? Because Harry and Ron are shouting at one another? She’s seen them fighting before. Because Ron shouted at her? This certainly wouldn’t be the first time he’s done that. No, Hermione’s crying because she’s horrified that Harry might believe she agrees with Ron. As she points out, she ‘didn’t say it like that’ and she wants Harry to know, more than anything, that she doesn’t feel the same way Ron does. She’s crying for the same reason that tears fill her eyes in OOTP after she insults Hagrid and Harry glares at her: because the idea of Harry questioning her loyalty to him is heartbreaking to her.


Pg 254

‘Protego!’ she cried, and an invisible shield expanded between her and Harry on the one side and Ron on the other; all of them were forced backwards a few steps by the strength of the spell and Harry and Ron glared from either side of the transparent barrier as though they were seeing each other clearly for the first time. Harry felt a corrosive hatred towards Ron: something had broken between them.

Why are Harry and Hermione on one side and Ron on the other? Simply because it would have been anti-climactic if Hermione had been able to run after Ron immediately? No way. I think this was Hermione’s little Freudian slip.

… [Ron] turned to Hermione.
‘What are you doing?’
‘What do you mean?’
‘Are you staying, or what?’
‘I…’ She looked anguished. ‘Yes – yes, I’m staying, Ron, we said we’d go with Harry, we said we’d help – ’
‘I get it. You choose him.’
‘Ron, no – please – come back, come back!’

As Harry says to Dudley early on in the book: Ron, for the first time in your life, you’re talking sense.

Here is one fact we cannot get away from: Hermione chooses Harry. Hermione stays with Harry. She doesn’t even hesitate; she blurts out her instinctive, heart-driven response. She is staying with Harry. Had Ron said ‘I’m leaving first thing in the morning; you have tonight to decide whether you’re coming with me or not’, and had Hermione stayed after thinking it over for a night, I might not be so convinced that she loves Harry. However, she has no time to think of a reasonable response: she says exactly what she feels.

‘I’m staying.’

Now I understand Ron’s motivation for leaving, and I don’t hold it against him because he does come back. But given he’s Harry’s other best friend and other supposed ‘sibling’, I think we finally see the distinction between Ron and Hermione, here, in this scene: one leaves, and the other stays. This speaks volumes for the depth of Hermione’s loyalty and love for Harry, and she willingly risks her relationship with Ron to stay beside the man she really loves.


Pg 254

She threw herself into a chair, curled up, and started to cry.
Harry felt dazed. He stooped, picked up the Horcrux and placed it around his own neck. He dragged blankets off Ron’s bunk and threw them over Hermione.

In spite of all the pain and anger Harry is suffering at the moment, he stops to make one unbearably sweet gesture.

Reading into it a little more, I think this is Harry’s way of doing three things: thanking her for staying; acknowledging that he knows how much it cost her to choose him and to make so plain her love for him; and telling her, without actually saying it, that he feels the same way.



This is where Part Two will end, because I’m unspeakably exhausted, and I want to take “Godric’s Hollow” and beyond together. I know many people may be wondering (I know I did) why, if Hermione really loves Harry, did she run after Ron, sobbing and begging him to come back? In Part Three of this analysis, I’m going to do my best to convincingly answer that question, as well as several others.

Until my next post, then! I hope people find as much hope and Harmony in these quotes and explanations as I have!


ADMIN NOTE:

Previous Part, Next Part

DO NOT TURN this thread into a shipping debate. I'll look over this and remove "debate-y" posts later.
-gal-texter, 2Jun2008

It has often been said that sometimes who one ultimately choses in life to be one's partner doesn't always make sense. There is enough divorce in the world to prove that it really doesn't always make sense..

However I agree with all those passages, they point to a deep abiding beautiful love.. Not the lust that seems to be the foundation of the Ginny Harry match... Or I might say the sibling rivery that is Ron and Hermione..

I think Mrs. Rowling got it totally backwards.. Was she an only child? Because you know what? Ron acts like my older brother, he always managed to be mean to me, and tease me, but he was most protective of me.. Where as Harry is usually considerate of Hermione, respects Hermione, they try to be there for one another, like the ideal couple...

We tend to forget though, that seemingly Ron is Mrs. Rowling's favorite character, or she wrote him after a dear friend she had, maybe who she had a real Hermione crush on? She is also on a second marriage isn't she? So maybe she isn't all that clear on what love is either? Because why else write the whole cliche rubbish? The final pairings cannot be discribed in any other fashion...

It seems like she throws bones to Ron though he really doesn't deserve them.. He gets to be Prefect, though he isn't the best student, though Harry admits academicly he is no better, however of the two, Harry is the most responsible.. Ron was a terrible Prefect, but it did throw him and Hermione together.. Harry is the hero, ergo Ron must end up with Hermione.. What of sweet Luna, who champions Ron, when most think he sucks at quidditch? She ends up with Dean, who gets mentioned over the course of seven books, snogged by Ginny, but not much more can be said of him..

What is the simplistic drivil about a self help book? That touches Hermione so? Huh? OBHWF is right, Hermione ends up being Molly to Ron's Arthur... What a sad commentary on Hermione, is she such a control freak? Was she ever? I guess it does somewhat fit the bossy Hermione image from the beginning.. So Ron is attracted to the woman most like his mom? In a marriage between Hermione and Ron, who'd wear the pants? Not saying anyone one should, still who would be the take charge spouse? Not Ron.. Nor would they ever be equals in their decision making... Mrs Rowling should have read Jane Austin more carefully and remember what Mr Bennet said to Elizabeth about someone one with her wit and intellectual gifts marrying someone with lessor gifts...

Then there is the mystery woman Ginny... Always on the margins, what is Mrs. Rowling have to say about this match? Or Harry for that matter, he can only feel below the belt? Other than possible magical powers and ability to fly, is Ginny an intellectual equal to Harry? A real partner in life?

That's not only unfair, but also uncalled for. I think that by all means the fact that she is now married again, and is according to her interviews a lot happier with her second husband than she ever could've been with her first, tells us that she knows exactly what love is about. I, myself, had to crash and burn too before I could decipher what I really wanted for myself. The statement that divorced people don't know what love is about is not only untrue, it's also offensive. If anything JK realised that her first marriage wasn't healthy, took the initiative of getting out and is now a much happier woman.

Her views on love might not match yours, yes. They don't have to - people are different and what they want and what they need could very well be different too. But I think we have no right whatsoever to criticise JK on her personal life, when all she did was take control of it again and be much happier for it. Getting a divorce when there are no other ways to salvage the marriage anymore isn't shameful, it's strong. And we don't know what happened there, so I don't think we have the right the judge her over it.



Now that you mention it, I think Freud would have a field day with Harry Potter (OMG this gave me so much ficbunnies for crack!fic with Freud analysing the underlying phallic symbols of wands etc... God, I hope I never ever write that )

Its bloody frustating with all this quote to not see Harry and Hermione together

It makes no sense at all. grr

Someone hold me.

magnificent job Padfoot! why JK never went with H/Hr after all this, well, fluff, is absolutely beyond me. then again, if the romance is as sad as H/G's or R/Hr's, i'd take beautiful 'sibling-y' love any day... my heart goes out to them, H/Hr, for all their gryffindor bravery, the courage to tell each other how they really feel is sadly, painfully, absent...

LMAO.

Not only do I agree with everything you've been saying, but I also just love your sense of humor. Because, face it, a lot of R/Hr moments aren't very deep, and could be considered funny almost.




I completely agree with your take on the whole fight between Ron and Harry. From Ron acting like a spoiled child, to the fact that Hermione, whose love of her life is supposed to be Ron, stays with Harry instead of Ron.

Thank you for all your hard work in finding these quotes! It's very much appreciated. Plus your commentary is hilarious.


LMFAO.

I'm sorry, that was just a genius quote.

This is so good! I love it.

Your commentary reminds me of the SS Recaps on the old HarryLovesHermione site. Really funny yet so accurate. Keep it up!!!

Lol that made me laugh out loud with happiness. Harry and Hermione shippers always had this thing of Harry/Hermione finishing eachothers sentances. R/HR shippers would say that this was us being delusional and they never really finished off eachothers sentances, just only a few times. Well the magic was back for a final time in DH and this was BLATANT finshing-eachothers-sentances. Classic Harmony Magic. Thanks Jo for this!

Oh yes I also agree that your commentary is soooo funny! It really does remind me of the most ingenious SS recaps. Hey maybe you could take over for her!

Again, great job on the moments!

I agree with all you said!



I agree. It's blatant that HHR can finish eachother's sentences.

‘… I can’t guarantee it will keep out Vol—’
‘Don’t say the name!’ Ron cut across her, his voice harsh.
Harry and Hermione looked at each other.
‘I’m sorry,’ Ron said, moaning a little as he raised himself to look at them, ‘but it feels like a – a jinx, or something. Can’t we call him You-Know-Who – please?

Sick images swarmed into Harry’s head and he tried to push these away too, for there was nothing he could do for Kreacher: he and Hermione had already decided against trying to summon him; what if someone from the Ministry came too?

So where next?’ was his constant refrain. He did not seem to have any ideas himself, but expected Harry and Hermione to come up with plans while he sat and brooded over the low food supplies. Accordingly, Harry and Hermione spent fruitless hours trying to decide where they might find the other Horcruxes, and how to destroy the one they had already got, their conversations becoming increasingly repetitive, as they had no new information

Inside the tent Harry’s breathing was shallow with excitement: he and Hermione stared at each other, listening as hard as they could.

And with that, he vanished completely, leaving behind him nothing but his murky backdrop.
‘Harry!’ Hermione cried.
‘I know!’ Harry shouted. Unable to contain himself, he punched the air… [Hermione] threw the bag aside and raised a shining face to Harry.
‘The sword can destroy Horcruxes! Goblin-made blades imbibe only that which strengthens them – Harry, that sword’s impregnated with Basilisk venom!’
‘And Dumbledore didn’t give it to me because he still needed it, he wanted to use it on the locket –’
‘– and he must have realized they wouldn’t let you have it if he put it in his will – ’
‘– so he made a copy – ’
‘– and put a fake in the glass case – ’
‘– and he left the real one… where?’
They gazed at each other…

I'm at a loss to figure out why JKR creates these wonderful scenes between Harry and Hermione when she doesn't want them to end up together. In my wife, I'd be looking for someone who is my equal, who is a full partner. With Ron, she's going to end up washing underpants and making him feel better, encouraging him that she has complete and utter faith in him.

And again, I'm baffled as to how Hermione does not become an Auror in JKR's version of things. If I was Harry, if I could choose only one schoolmate to be on my side in a fight, it would most definitely be her, despite Ginny's All-Powerful Bat-Bogey Hex.

But maybe at seventeen she didn't.... Harry, Ron and Hermione are that age. Indeed, romance she writes about sounds like a many, many, MANY, Hollywood and second rate cliche romance novels.. Why is that?

Wow! I can't wait for part three! I was jsut waiting for someone to do a project like this and I'm so glad you did!

I can't wait for part three either...please, please keep it up!

I guess I'm a sucker for sad,bittersweet love stories and DH certainly delivers. Hermione is truly torn in this last novel,because she's faced with the fact that she and Harry will never be,due to various circumstances. Their story is mirrored in the Snape/Lily storyline,in which if circumstances were different,their friendship would have evolved into romance. I could be wrong but I think I now know why Snape didn't like Ron. He could see the whole scenario happening all over again,where the bright and clever muggle-born girl was being pulled into the pureblood boy's direction and away from her half-blood friend. History did indeed repeat itself and the new Lily(Hermione) and James(Ron) marry,although they don't look like the original pair. This is a great essay and I love how it illustrates that no matter who they eventually married,no one will ever be able to break the bond H/Hr share. Soulmates are very rare and H/Hr are prime examples of how hormones and lust cannot conquer pure love.

of course..H/hr ship ought to keep sailing because we still got powerful of Tide wave to help us sail into enternity...and we got power of Love..

Thank you so, so much, all of you! I can't describe how much your encouragement helps, and I'm so glad you're enjoying this! It will probably take me another day to complete Part Three... I'm just really lucky I've got holidays and that I love rereading parts of DH, or else it would take me weeks!

you are genius. For posting all of those most romantic and sexiest h/hr 'moment and quote' from book.

I just want to Kill Mrs. Jo for not putting these two up in Married. No I am wrong. H/hr are married to each other soul that is much better then some abusive and lust ship that H/G and R/hr has.

anyways..here is one of my favorite of H/hr:

Pgs 64-65

QUOTE
There was a scuffling outside. Lupin dived for the back door; Harry leapt over Hagrid’s legs, and sprinted into the yard.
Two figures appeared in the yard and as Harry ran towards them he realized they were Hermione, now returning to her normal appearance, and Kingsley, both clutching a bent coat hanger. Hermione flung herself into Harry’s arms, but Kingsley showed no pleasure at the sight of any of them. Over Hermione’s shoulder Harry saw him raise his wand and point it at Lupin’s chest.

All I'm gonna say is I freakin' love you and I can' wait for installment #3. The End

TAHNKS ,I THINK THESE QUOTES ARE ENOUGH FOR ME IN DH

You know, this is really a thoughtful post of yours. Not that Snape liked Harry, mind you...but for him disliking Harry there's another reason, he reminded him of James by his appearance, so Snape treats him badly. Ron, he treats him badly because he can see story repeating itslef and he hates it. Add that they are both Gryffindor and Snape's mean behaviour to them is explained. However, he never really mistreated Hermione, even if she's Gryffindor too, if remember well. Another hint that he might see Lily again in her.

So, with Snape, we have a growing group of canon characters who ship HHr or think it could happen:

Snape, Dumbledore with his comment in chapter 35, Voldemort with the locket scene, Krum and Rita Skeeter in GoF, Cho in OoTP, Ron fears it in DH...are they all mad? Plus, i think Sirius and Lupin kind of see Lily in Hermione too, you know, with their comments about ehr being the brightest witch at Hogwarts in PoA...

Deathly Hallows was the book for Harry and Hermione moments. Everything that made Harry and Hermione's realationship so special, everything shippers have speculated about being there since book 1 made itself apparent once more. A few of these are:

-Harry and Hermione completing eachothers sentances
-Harry and Hermione seeing eye to eye on most situations
-Harry and Hermione working things out together and solving problems.
-Wordless communication, Harry and Hermione being able to understand eachother without saying anything.
-Hermione ALWAYS being by Harry's side, never leaving him.
-Harry looking for Hermione for support and guidance.
-Herminoe putting Harry as her top priority
-Harry listening to what Hermione's got to say, trusting her judgement no matter what.

The list can go on and on........

WOW!!! This is my new favorite thread! Your posts and are excellent and your scene/character dissections are spot-on! Bravo, bravo, bravo!!! Anxiously awaiting part 3!



Hmmm... that really makes me think!!! Excellent point you've made with that post. Snape dislikes Harry because he reminds him of James, he dislikes Hermione for being a "know it all"but we never really do find out why he has it out for Ron. Before we find out that he's not evil one might suspect that it's because he's a "blood traitor" but since he's actually a 'good' guy that just doesn't fit.

I think that you are really onto something with this theory!

Padfoot! Really good job! I really appreaciatte you're doing this.

If you need any help with the quotes, I marked all of the HHr moments on my book, so just PM me and I'll help you

I agree.
D.H is Final H/hr bible book!

Thanks Harry85,it was just something I had thought about for awhile after reading the books more than once,was that Snape could see the subtle little things happening all over again with the second generation versions of himself,Lily,and James. I guess Snape was secretly hoping that Harry wouldn't make the same mistake he did and loose the most precious person in his life. Luckily Harry didn't loose Hermione's trust in him like Snape did by siding with the death eaters. However in Hermione's case,Harry was unobtainable because Ginny had already made her claim on him. It's amazing how everyone could see the depth of H/Hr's relationship,yet Harry remained completely oblivious to it. Of course it's not all his fault,if Hermione hadn't been so insecure and told him how she truly felt,then he wouldn't have made the lame "love her like a sister" comment. Rowling left too much guess work in the area of where Hermione's heart truly wanted to be. Hermione has shown throughout the series when it comes to who's side she chooes it's Harry. I think CarolineD said it best in another post-H/Hr souls are married to each other,although they're married to other people. Truer words were never spoken.

Yeah I agree that we were left hanging about Hermione's real feelings. So...yes, their souls are probably married right now and they keep berating their owners for marrying other people, lol.

ADMIN NOTE:

Previous Part, Next Part

DO NOT TURN this thread into a shipping debate. I'll look over this and remove "debate-y" posts later. Those posts slipped through the net as the mod team was severely understaffed when this thread came out.

-gal-texter, 2Jun2008





Here it is, Part Three of ‘H/Hr in DH’ (Parts Four and Five still to come). This one deals with quite a bit of analysis – most of which puts a positive spin on some moments that, at first glance, seem to be very anti-H/Hr. Here, I cover the wonderful, mostly Harmonian section of the book—from “Godric’s Hollow” to “The Life and Lies of Albus Dumbledore”.
I’m sorry I can’t post these chapters in their entirety, since there’s so much H/Hr here for us, but I would be more than human if I could type it all up. I’ve just picked out the best and most significant moments (and believe me, there are many).

I’ve put in the page number but not chapter title. All the page numbers are from the UK/British edition of DH, but the extracts have mostly American spelling.


Pg 254

…Harry stood quite still and silent, listening to her sobbing and calling Ron’s name amongst the trees.

This bit (which I didn’t cover in Part Two because it ties in with what I’m going to continue with) begs the question: why, if Hermione is in love with Harry, did she run after Ron?

My response? Well, of course she did! Of course she went after him! Anyone would. Some might argue that the fact that she was sobbing indicates extreme emotion, but I’d like to point out that Hermione spends a great deal of time in this book crying. Let’s look at it this way: if Harry had stormed off instead of Ron, I’ll bet anything that Hermione would have run after him. In fact, we know she would have. And we know that anti-H/Hr shippers would claim that she did it only because he’s her best friend and ‘brother’.

Point proven.

I’m not trying to argue that Hermione’s feelings for Ron are brotherly. In fact, I’ve already stated that it seems established that Hermione cares very deeply for Ron. Ron, for all his faults, is still a good guy and deserves to be loved by his wife, and I think Hermione does love him (a little). I just believe that Hermione’s love for Harry is greater and deeper and that in spite of appearances in DH, this love still endures. My point, to answer the question above, is that Hermione running after Ron does not prove that she is in love with him. Which gives us continuing hope.

The fact that she chooses to stay with Harry instead of leaving with Ron… well, that’s a conscious choice, isn’t it?


Pg 255

Hermione, who was already busy in the kitchen, did not wish Harry good morning, but turned her face away as he went by.

Some might argue that she hides her face and doesn’t speak because she’s crying and doesn’t want Harry to see/hear it. This is a satisfactory explanation, although it’s a little odd that on the very next page, she walks off, sits on a rock, and sobs right in front of him. However, we’ll accept that she’s crying over Ron and doesn’t want Harry to know. I have another explanation for her behavior here, which I’ll come to in a moment.


They packed up their things, Hermione dawdling… [Harry] was sure she had deluded herself into thinking that she had heard footsteps through the heavy rain, but no red-haired figure appeared between the trees. Every time Harry imitated her, looked round (for he could not help hoping a little himself)…

This, naturally, proves Hermione’s everlasting love for Ron. She can’t bear to leave without him and she keeps dawdling and looking round for him, so, of course, she’s madly in love with him. And I s’pose the fact that Harry does it too means that he’s keeling over with passion for Ron as well. *tsks* Ron, Ron, you Casanova of the nineties!


It is here that I begin my main chunk of analysis. Many people believe (H/Hr shippers included; I know this because I believed this as well) that the early pages of the “Godric’s Hollow” chapter, where Harry and Hermione don’t talk much to one another, proves once and for all that these two could never have feelings for one another.

However, a second, third and fourth reading of this book (and… er… first-hand experience with this kind of situation) revealed to me just the opposite: these pages prove that Harry and Hermione have deep, romantic feelings for one another. To be quite honest, I love the fact that it was written like this. I love that instead of slipping back into their comfortable, friendly, close relationship, Harry and Hermione are strained for a few weeks after Ron leaves.

There are two ways to look at it:

1. The R/Hr way: that Harry and Hermione completely fall apart without Ron.

Now, it’s ludicrous to imagine that Ron’s absence, by itself, could have this effect on Harry and Hermione. After all, these two managed perfectly well in GOF, when Harry and Ron had their other huge fight. In fact, it only brought H/Hr closer. Again, they were perfectly happy alone together all those times in OOTP. And once more, they stayed very close after Hermione and Ron’s ridiculous fight in HBP (in fact, it’s during this R/Hr rift that H and Hr have their wonderfully pointless conversation in the library about love potions and Filch/Madam Pince).

So, if we look at it the R/Hr and H/G way, and claim that without Ron, Harry and Hermione can’t work, then I’m afraid we’re looking at a case of twisted characters and character manipulation. Three previous books have shown that while Ron is essential to the group, as a pair, H and Hr still work wonderfully. Therefore, I give you option two:

2. That Harry and Hermione are very much in character, that JKR has outdone herself in subtlety here, and that, because they have remained very close even without Ron’s presence among them before, their strain must be borne of more than Ron’s absence alone.

So, to get to the heart of it, I asked myself: why do Harry and Hermione shy away from one another? What is different about this time from all the other times they’ve been without Ron?

The answer came to me at once, and it’s astonishingly simple: the difference, here, is that this time, Ron left with a parting shot: ‘I get it. You choose him.’

For the first time in the HP books, someone incredibly close to Harry and Hermione has baldly, blatantly and without a shred of ambiguity stated, though not in those exact words, that there is something romantic and deep going on between the two of them. Someone – their best friend, no less – has told them, to their faces, that he believes they’re in love with one another, or, at the very least, that Hermione is in love with Harry.

In the end, that’s why Ron leaves—not because he’s angry that they’re getting nowhere and not purely because he’s angry that Harry doesn’t seem to care about Ginny (though these are small factors)—he leaves, essentially, because he believes he’s been betrayed by his best friends.

This is why I don’t blame Ron. I would probably leave as well, or at least storm off for a little while (we know he wanted to come back), if I thought my best friends were in love with one another while I was dating one of them.

On the surface, everyone believes Ron is just being insecure. That his notion of H/Hr is ridiculous, and that Harry and Hermione, of all people, know how wrong he is. So, if that’s true, then I’m afraid we’re still stuck with this question: if Harry and Hermione know they have no feelings for one another at all, why didn’t they just laugh it off? Why not fall back into their normal friendship and try to comfort one another over the absence of best friend and boyfriend? Why didn’t Harry ever reflect and think about how wrong Ron was to assume H/Hr?

Because he wasn’t wrong. He was right.

To quote Malfoy in OOTP: looks like I’ve touched a nerve.

To put it simply, when Ron uttered those fatal words that I’ve put in bold above, he touched a nerve. He uttered a truth that Hermione (and Harry, in a different way) has been smothering and denying and hiding for years. Put yourselves in Hermione’s shoes for a few minutes: can you possibly imagine the effect this has on her, to hear someone state her desperately hidden and unacknowledged feelings out loud, in the presence of the person they most concern?

Personally, if Harry and Hermione had been content and comfortable after Ron had left, I would have a) considered them insensitive gits (which they are not), and believed that Harmony was sunk for good. However, the fact that we have a seemingly anti-H/Hr few pages only makes me happier.

A nerve has been touched, fellow Harmonians. And a nerve can’t be touched unless there are powerful feelings there in the first place.

And now that I’ve put forth my theory and analysis, I’ll produce the canon evidence to support it:


Pg 256

The instant they arrived Hermione dropped Harry’s hand and walked away from him, finally sitting down on a large rock, her face on her knees, shaking with what he knew were sobs.

Yes, she’s crying. Obviously, that means she’s desperately missing Ron, we must be loony to think otherwise! After all, heaven forbid that there be another equally convincing explanation: i.e. that she’s crying because her secret has just exploded in her face and she has lost one best friend while being forced to confront her feelings for her other best friend.

I find it excruciatingly interesting that she ‘dropped Harry’s hand’. We all know that Hermione is a logical young woman, and certainly not prone to fancy. She lingered by the previous campsite because she knew that Ron wouldn’t find them once they had moved. So why in the world does she drop Harry’s hand like this? Ron isn’t there and she knows there’s no way he could see them; she doesn’t need to convince him that she has no feelings for Harry whatsoever.

I don’t think she’s doing this for Ron’s benefit at all; I think Hermione drops Harry’s hand because she’s trying to convince herself that she doesn’t love him.

Ron left feeling betrayed. If Hermione knew she hadn’t betrayed him with her feelings, if she knew that she felt nothing more than friendship for Harry, why drop his hand as though she’s been caught in the act? It’s the classic guilty reaction: if Hermione had nothing to feel guilty about, why would she react this way?

[Harry] watched her, supposing he ought to go and comfort her, but something kept him rooted to the spot. Everything inside him felt cold and tight: again he saw the contemptuous expression on Ron’s face.

Aha. And here we have it: the proof.

Harry is not unwilling to comfort her; in fact, he wants to. But something stops him: Ron.

Why should Ron’s contemptuous expression (commonly held to be the one Ron wears when he says ‘we thought you knew that you were doing’) make Harry hesitant to comfort Hermione? There’s no sense or logic to this. Unless, of course, the expression referred to is actually the one Ron wears when he says ‘you choose him’.

I think Harry, watching Hermione cry, realizes now that because of the way Ron left them, believing himself betrayed, he, Harry, can never touch her. That would be an outright betrayal and he can’t do that. Even if Harry knows Hermione has some feelings for him (and I think he guesses they’re there, but doesn’t realize how powerful they are), and even if he feels a great deal for her in turn, he can’t do anything about it. That’s why he doesn’t comfort her: again, it’s the guilty reaction. That’s why he feels cold and tight.

Harry strode off through the heather, walking in a large circle with the distraught Hermione at its centre, casting the spells she usually performed to ensure their protection.

Symbolic much, Harry? You’re walking a circle with Hermione at its centre?

They did not discuss Ron at all over the next few days… sometimes at night when [Hermione] thought he was sleeping, he would hear her crying. Meanwhile, Harry had started bringing out the Marauder’s Map and examining it by wandlight… after a while Harry found himself taking it out simply to examine Ginny’s name in the girls’ dormitory…

Several people might use this as an example of H/G. I, however, use it as an example of Harry’s feelings for Hermione. We know he’s attracted to Ginny. We know he’s fond of her. And I believe she’s second best. Harry’s sudden obsession with watching Ginny’s name is the effect of a cause: it’s almost explicitly stated that he takes out the Marauder’s Map only because he feels alone. Ginny’s name is his way of trying to forget Hermione’s tears.

Harry, who tends to misinterpret things, believes Hermione is sobbing because she misses Ron and because she feels guilty. He believes Ron’s comment before he left has ensured that he, Harry, has lost Hermione for good. So, left out in the cold once more, Harry tries desperately to forget Hermione’s pain and his own, and tries to find solace in what little he has left… cause and effect.

One might claim that even if this explanation is true, it’s still an anti-H/Hr moment. I don’t think it is. I think it suggests strong feelings for Hermione on Harry’s part (feelings which we know don’t find fruition in marriage and children, but that doesn’t mean they don’t exist).


Pg 257

…he was constantly, painfully on the alert for any indication that Hermione, too, was about to tell him that she had had enough, that she was leaving.

I actually want to cry for Harry here. He’s terrified that she may leave him too.

They were spending many evenings in near silence, and Hermione took to bringing out Phineas Nigellus’s portrait… as though he might fill part of the gaping hole left by Ron’s departure.

Please note the use of the word ‘departure’, not ‘absence’ or ‘the fact that Ron wasn’t there’. Of course they miss him. We know they do. But the hole left behind was caused, again, because of the fact that he left the way he did, because of the way Ron departed (touching a nerve), not because he isn’t there at all.

And I’ve offered an explanation already for why they’re spending evenings in near silence.


Pg 258

They had already spotted Christmas trees twinkling from several sitting-room windows…

By this time, several weeks have passed since Ron left; several weeks, in fact, during which time Harry and Hermione have been alone together. We find out a few lines later that both are beginning to feel and act like their normal selves again, which means that a state of equilibrium has been reached and H and Hr are slipping back into the comfort and closeness that always characterized them. However, no verbal mention of Ron. The nerve is still sore.

There are several possibilities here: one, that time healed the shock that had struck the two of them after Ron’s cataclysmic pronouncement and departure and both are beginning, once again, to stifle and ignore their feelings for one another. Another possibility is that both, possibly subconsciously, are allowing themselves to grow closer again, perhaps even allowing themselves to hope, once more, that they might be able to openly love one another.

The latter possibility seems to be contradicted by the fact that two paragraphs previously, Harry reflects on how much he misses Hogwarts, Ron, Dumbledore and Ginny. But we must note that weeks have passed since this time, and I’ll wager Harry misses Ginny less and less with each day he grows closer to Hermione again.

Secondly, my second possibility seems supported by the fact that Harry suggests, a few paragraphs on, that they go to Godric’s Hollow. Harry is not an idiot. Yes, he suggests it because it’s the only ‘unexplored avenue’ left to them. But we all know he desperately wants to go there. And he knows that going to this town will be a difficult, painful and intensely personal experience. The fact that he’s willing to share this experience with Hermione, the fact that JKR wrote that experience involving just the two of them, speaks volumes for this relationship.


Pg 260

‘Really? Gryffindor came from Godric’s Hollow?’
‘Harry, did you ever even open A History of Magic?’
‘Erm,’ he said, smiling for what felt like the first time in months…

You can’t see it, but I’m running to avoid being hit by an anvil.

Seriously. They’re both acting like their old, normal selves, and the sight of Hermione back to being the Hermione he knows and loves makes Harry smile once again. It’s not the all-exalted memories of his forgetful moments with Ginny in secluded corners. It’s not Ron’s jokes. It’s Hermione being Hermione that makes him smile again. What could possibly be squee-worthy about that?


Pg 262

It was a sticky moment: Harry knew that she had sensed Ron’s name in the offing. He rushed on: ‘She said Bathilda Bagshot still lives in Godric’s Hollow.’

Harry’s no longer avoiding Ron’s name because he’s angry with the bloke. He’s not saying it because the last thing he wants is to ruin the spirit he’s built and shared with Hermione so far. He thinks he will ruin it by bringing up the thing that stands between them. It may be a victory for R/Hr shippers that Ron stands between Harry and Hermione, but I think it’s a huge victory for us that there’s something for him to stand between in the first place!


Pg 263

…they finally swallowed Polyjuice Potion, Harry transforming into a balding middle-aged Muggle man, Hermione into his small and rather mousy wife.

It’s just very cute that they transform into husband and wife. Screams symbolic to me, but hey, I’m just delusional, remember?


Pg 264

Heart beating in his throat, Harry opened his eyes. They were standing hand in hand in a snowy lane under a dark blue sky in which the night’s first stars were already glimmering feebly. Cottages stood on either side of the narrow road, Christmas decorations twinkling in their windows. A short way ahead of them, a glow of golden streetlights indicated the centre of the village.

I’m sorry to say that anyone who doesn’t think this paragraph is sinfully romantic, or who thinks that it became sinfully romantic by accident, has been hit in the stomach by a Positive Banana Hammer.

‘Let’s take off the Cloak,’ said Harry, and when she looked frightened, ‘oh, come on, we don’t look like us and there’s no one around.’

As an English Literature student, I tend to read into things a lot (maybe too much). But there’s something in these two lines that shouts subtext at me.

I know it’s a stretch, but it feels like Harry’s asking Hermione, just this once, to ‘take off the cloak’ and walk with him without hiding, without concealing anything… and, given that this is followed by Harry and Hermione behaving more romantically to one another than anyone in this series has to anybody else, I think I may be justified in reading into this particular quote.


Pg 265

Harry felt a thrill of something that was beyond excitement, more like fear. Now that he was so near, he wondered whether he wanted to see, after all. Perhaps Hermione knew how he was feeling, because she reached for his hand and took the lead for the first time, pulling him forwards.

Silent communication? Check. Physical contact? Check. Thoughtful sensitivity? Check check.

Welcome back, Harry and Hermione!

(Some may claim that twins also share silent communication and physical contact. Sadly, I’m sorry to say that Harry and Hermione are not even remotely related. So what’s their excuse?)


Pg 269

‘“The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death”…’ A horrible thought came to him, and with it a kind of panic. ‘Isn’t that a Death Eater idea? Why is that there?’
‘It doesn’t mean defeating death in the way the Death Eaters mean it, Harry,’ said Hermione, her voice gentle. ‘It means… you know… living beyond death. Living after death.’
But they were not living, thought Harry: they were gone… And tears before he could stop them, boiling hot then instantly freezing on his face and what was the point in wiping them off, or pretending? He let them fall, his lips pressed hard together…

There are three things in this bit that struck me. One: that Hermione, of course, understands his fears and manages to make sense of the confusion in his mind. Two: that Hermione is the only one we know of, in canon, who has seen Harry cry. Tears ‘burned in his eyes’ when he saw Dumbledore’s body and we know he doesn’t weep outright at the funeral… this is the first and only time we see Harry cry in front of somebody else, and that somebody else is Hermione.

All my male friends have told me that the only person they would allow to see them so vulnerable would be the only person they truly love and trust. My brother (and my friends’ brothers) has told me, repeatedly, that he would rather die than let me, his sister, see him cry. It’s not rocket science, is it?

Finally, there is that one line: ‘what was the point in… pretending?’

I think this is the turning point. If ever there’s a point in DH where Harry acknowledges that he has feelings for Hermione, this would be it. I think this line is significant, and that, given his actions in the next paragraph, it rings true. Harry, who has already subconsciously realized how much he loves her, finally takes that knowledge to a conscious level. He’s tired of pretending.

It’s wonderfully bittersweet because, of course, we know he goes back to pretending, and we know why: because he believes she loves Ron more than she loves him, and because he sees how much Ron seems to love her.

Hermione had taken his hand again and was gripping it tightly. He could not look at her, but returned the pressure, now taking deep, sharp gulps of the night air, trying to steady himself, trying to regain control. He should have brought something to give them, and he had not thought of it, and every plant in the graveyard was leafless and frozen. But Hermione raised her wand, moved it in a circle in the air and a wreath of Christmas roses blossomed before them. Harry caught it and laid it on his parents’ grave.
As soon as he stood up, he wanted to leave: he did not think he could stand another moment there. He put his arm around Hermione’s shoulders, and she put hers around his waist, and they turned in silence and walked away through the snow, past Dumbledore’s mother and sister, back towards the dark church and the out-of-sight kissing gate.

Stop. Freeze frame.

I don’t think I can say anything about this extract to make it more beautiful than it already is.


Pg 270

‘There’s someone there. Someone watching us. I can tell. There, over by the bushes.’
They stood quite still, holding on to each other, gazing at the dense black boundary of the graveyard.

No, no, you idiots! Gaze at each other, not the dense black boundary of the graveyard! Oh, I can’t wait to turn twenty so that I can complain bitterly about the foolish obtuseness of teenagers! *pauses to compose bitter sonnet (entitled Ode to a Dense Pair of Moronic Prevaricators) about Harry and Hermione’s insistence on gazing at dense black things while holding onto one another*

She broke from him to free her wand arm.

*snorts* It took her long enough to break away from him and get into action. A wee bit reluctant, were we, Hermione? I don’t blame you; Harry’s probably warm and cuddly.


Pg 271

She tugged at his arm, but Harry was not paying attention. He was looking towards the dark mass that stood at the very end of this row of houses. Next moment he had sped up, dragging Hermione along with him; she slipped a little on the ice.

Because, really, his entire existence might shatter if he leaves her behind… er… two feet away. How very brotherly of him.


Pg 272

‘They shouldn’t have written on the sign!’ said Hermione, indignant.
But Harry beamed at her.
‘It’s brilliant! I’m glad they did. I…’

I could hug them both. Hermione is very Hermione, and Harry grins (not at the sign, mind you, but at her) to see her behaving so like the woman he knows and loves. Who says Harry and Hermione aren’t happy alone together? Who says Hermione pines for Ron all the way until he returns? Who says Hermione can’t make Harry smile? Did they read this chapter?


Pg 273

Hermione moved closer to him under the Cloak, her arm pressed against his.

The muffled figure nodded and beckoned again.
Beneath the Cloak, Harry and Hermione looked at each other. Harry raised his eyebrows; Hermione gave a tiny, nervous nod.

(Harry and Hermione; def. 1: Physical closeness. Partnership. Trust. Equals. Working in tandem.
def. 2: Soulmates and lovers and bonded for life, though this latter definition is open to speculation by those who believe in happy Weasley families.
---Padfoot’s Portable Dictonary)


Pg 274

‘Come!’ called Bathilda from the next room.
Hermione jumped and clutched Harry’s arm.
‘It’s OK,’ said Harry reassuringly, and he led the way into the sitting room.

Brief, sweet, perfect.


Pg 276

‘She wants me to go with her, alone.’
‘Why?’ asked Hermione, and her voice rang out sharp and clear…
<snip>
‘Do you really think she knows who you are?’
‘Yes,’ said Harry, looking down into the milky eyes fixed upon his own, ‘I think she does.’
‘Well, OK then, but be quick, Harry.’
<snip>
…Harry glanced back at Hermione with a reassuring smile…

No, seriously, why don’t I just jump aboard the OBHWF while I’m at it? Clearly, this is a lost cause, isn’t it? I mean, it’s not as though Hermione is worried about what might happen to Harry if he’s left on his own with slightly ga-ga women. But, OK, let’s be fair: a sister might be worried about her brother in that situation.

What clinches it for me, though, is the fact that Harry looks back and smiles at her to make her feel better; here is something we have never seen him do before. Never. Either this suggests to me that Harry and Hermione’s friendship has only strengthened since Ron left (which in any case negates the theory that his absence ruined it), or it tells me of feelings that are deeper and more evolving than normal friendship.


Pg 279

… He scrambled up and saw the snake outlined against the landing light: it struck, and Hermione dived aside with a shriek: her deflected curse hit the curtained window, which shattered.

She heard him in trouble and came racing to the rescue, saving his life, without a thought as to what might happen to her while she was at it. Just one of the few instances where Harry and Hermione put each other’s safety at far greater importance than their own.

… Hermione was nowhere to be seen and for a moment Harry thought the worst…

Blood-chilling horror. His priority now is to get her out…

‘He’s coming! Hermione, he’s coming!’
…Harry jumped over the bed and seized the dark shape he knew to be Hermione –
<snip>
The snake lunged as he took a running leap, dragging Hermione with him… Glass cut his cheek as, pulling Hermione with him, he leapt from bed to broken dressing table and then straight out of the smashed window, her scream reverberating through the night as they twisted in mid-air…

Yeah, he might have done the same to save his own life and Ron’s, or anyone else’s. But the fact is, he saved Hermione’s and his desperation was acute. These two are standing along together, side by side, fighting together to save each other, in one of the most frightening and dangerous moments they’ve encountered in their lives.


Pg 282-283

‘No…’
‘Harry, it’s all right, you’re all right!’
<snip>
He opened his eyes.
‘Harry,’ Hermione whispered, ‘Do you feel all – all right?’
<snip>
There were purple shadows under her brown eyes and he noticed a small sponge in her hand: she had been wiping his face.

Love? *snorts* How could this be love? She hasn’t stayed up all night to tend to him! Her voice doesn’t break him free of the terrible mind-bond! He doesn’t notice, at a time like this, that her eyes, which are never explicitly described before (and certainly needn’t be right now), are brown! Good heavens, they’re just brother and sister! Siblings do this sort of thing all the time…

‘Not exactly,’ said Hermione uncomfortably. ‘You’ve been shouting and moaning and… things’…

Moaning what exactly? ‘Help me, Hermione’… ‘I love you, Hermione’… ‘I want you, Hermione…’ Haha. The sexual symbolism surrounding this couple is astonishing. But OK, let’s be reasonable and assume he didn’t declare eternal love for her while submerged in Voldemort’s consciousness. Either way, Hermione, once again, is the only person to see him so vulnerable.

Some may say that she treats him like she would her son or, yes, brother. I say that incest must be the theme of the book, then.

‘We shouldn’t have gone to Godric’s Hollow. It’s my fault, it’s all my fault, Hermione, I’m sorry.’

He apologizes more to her in this book than he does to anyone else in the series. I’m sorry you nearly died because I wanted to go there. I don’t know what I would do if you weren’t here with me. He as good as says this.

He remembered the snake coming out of Bathilda’s neck: Hermione did not need to know the details.

How beautifully gallant of you, Harry! Protecting her even from something as minor as that? Do tell me: did you marry Ginny simply because you knew that if your kids had… erm… brown eyes, no one would question it?


Pg 285

…Then he held out the wand to Hermione.
‘Mend it. Please.’
‘Harry, I don’t think, when it’s broken like this – ’
‘Please, Hermione, try!’
‘R – Reparo.’

Her face glazed with tears, Hermione handed over her wand, and he left her sitting beside is bed, desiring nothing more than to get away from her.

So that’s it, some claim. Whatever magic they may have had, it’s gone.

(Of course, some completely ignore the fact that Hermione’s tears are a slightly extreme reaction for someone who has just broken her brother’s most useful possession. Anyone delusional might think she’s devastated at how her mistake will affect the man she loves. And some people tend to overlook that Harry is only human: of course he wants to get away from her, and I think it’s a good sign that he does. It shows that he’s afraid that if he stays with her, he’ll explode and say something cruel and angry that he doesn’t mean. He wants to get away from her so as not to hurt her by losing his temper.)


Pg 287

‘Harry?’
Hermione looked frightened that he might curse her with her own wand. Her face streaked with tears, she crouched down beside him, two cups of tea trembling in her hands and something bulky under her arm.
‘Thanks,’ he said, taking one of the cups.
‘Do you mind if I talk to you?’
‘No,’ he said, because he did not want to hurt her feelings.

If all the other moments haven’t yet convinced people that Harry and Hermione have deep feelings for one another, this ought to clinch it. Siblings do not behave this way. Even best friends do not behave this way. This, I think, is the distinction from the scene at the beginning of OOTP, where Harry shouts at both Ron and Hermione. There, Harry sees them both as family. You shout at your family. You even shout at your best friends sometimes, because it doesn’t matter so much. In the beginning of OOTP, Harry either didn’t have romantic feelings for Hermione (though I think he did), or didn’t know he felt them.

Here, Harry not only has feelings for her, but he’s conscious of them. Hence, he controls his temper where she’s concerned. He’s completely comfortable with showing her every aspect of his personality—she knows him better than anyone, after all—but still, he makes a conscious effort not to hurt her.

This is the second time in DH that we see Harry doing something just so as not to hurt Hermione’s feelings. Once may have been a small aberration in sibling affections. Twice is one too many times.


Pg 288

‘You’re still really angry at me, aren’t you?’ said Hermione; he looked up to see fresh tears leaking out of her eyes, and knew that some of his anger must have shown in his face.
‘No,’ he said quietly, ‘No, Hermione, I know it was an accident. You were trying to get us out of there alive, and you were incredible. I’d be dead if you hadn’t been there to help me.’

She can’t bear the idea of him staying angry with her (how extraordinarily sisterly of her), and he isn’t angry with her: it’s Dumbledore’s he’s angry with. He also bestows upon her the single greatest compliment he’s ever given anybody. In spite of his anger, in spite of his misery at the loss of his wand, he is still able to behave maturely and to tell her, with absolute sincerity, how much he appreciates her efforts to save his life. This reminds me of the only other moment where Harry looks past his rage to recognize and appreciate loyalty: after the fight with Hermione (gosh, what a coincidence) over Sirius, where he recognizes Hermione’s solidarity and loyalty.

Now if only my brother would recognize my virtues, I’d be happy as a daisy…


Pg 293

… All was ashes: how much more could he lose? Ron, Dumbledore, the phoenix wand…

Please note: Ginny hasn’t even been mentioned or thought of in the past several pages. Not once, even in Godric’s Hollow, does Harry wish Ginny were with him instead of Hermione, at his parents’ grave. So, he’s as good as given Ginny up, and yet he doesn’t seem to mind very much. Then we have the loss of Dumbledore and Ron and his wand in the same sentence, implying that he believes they’re all gone for good, in different ways.

And yet… he hasn’t broken yet. He lost Sirius and he almost broke, but he went on. He lost Dumbledore, and went on. He lost Ron… much as Harry loves Ron, I think he can survive without him. Ron is no longer ‘the thing he would miss the most’.

It’s interesting that we never see Harry faced with a situation where he believes he’s lost Hermione for good (and not just in the romantic sense). We saw a hint of it in OOTP, and we saw how Harry just crumpled, unable to think, unable to act. I believe that if he lost Hermione, he would break… without her, Harry can’t go on. It’s astonishing that so many people don’t seem to realize and appreciate this.

‘Harry.’ She seemed to have heard his thoughts. ‘Listen to me…’

*scoffs* I s’pose this was a fluke. And so were the other five hundred and who knows how many times, as well. Two peas in a pod, these two, they must be twins. Or brother and sister. Psychic connection and all that… on the other hand, I believe there are psychological and scientific studies into the phenomenon of mind-bonds between true lovers…

Heathcliff and Cathy had it. Jane Eyre and Mr Rochester had it. Romeo and Juliet had it. I suppose they were all siblings too.


Pg 294

… He did not want to let his anger spill out at her…

And here we have it, canon proof of what I’ve been saying all along: he doesn’t want to hurt her by losing his temper with her. A symbol of love that he shows no one else.


(A side note on the subject of Harry using Hermione’s wand: many people have said this and they’re right—there’s a certain connection between wizards and wands, and the fact that Harry can use Hermione’s wand with such ease and good result seems to suggest that this relationship runs deeper than anyone would expect.)


Pg 295

‘He loved you,’ Hermione whispered. ‘I know he loved you.’

Heartbreakingly sweet. This line is much too emotional to be passed off as Hermione merely wanting to reassure Harry. Yes, she’s desperate to make him feel better, to convince him of Dumbledore’s love for him. But she’s also desperate to make him see that he is not unloved. It’s the closest she can get to ‘I love you’. It’s the closest she’ll ever go, and that’s enough for me.

She hesitated, but recognized the dismissal. She picked up the book and then walked back past him into the tent, but as she did so, she brushed the top of his head lightly with her hand. He closed his eyes at her touch, and hated himself for wishing that what she said was true: that Dumbledore had really cared.

If I were being exceedingly critical, I would say that Hermione brushing his head with her hand might, in a bizarre parallel universe, be attributed to sisterly feelings. However, the fact that Harry ‘closes his eyes’ at that touch completely throws that possibility out of the window! There are a few universal literary portrayals of love (the ‘true’ kind), and one of them is the closing of one’s eyes at a touch by a lover.

If we take it a step further just for the fun of it, and expand on Hermione’s ‘He loved you’ = ‘I love you’ metaphor, we can look at it like ‘[Harry hated himself for wishing that what she said was true: that she really cared].


Harry and Hermione’s love, we know, does not end in marriage or family as far as nineteen years into the future goes. And I have no doubt that they both find some measure of happiness with Ron and Ginny, not least because of the children they have.

However, in H/Hr, we have a love that is not only rare, but which is extraordinary: over seven books, we’ve watched them grow and mature in time with one another, keeping pace, growing closer, sharing things they never share with anyone else. They even have faint elements of sexuality between them and certainly a great deal of romantic and sexual imagery. Harry and Hermione go beyond ordinary love; they don’t need to have a relationship in canon (metaphorically, they’re already in one) and they speak for themselves. They are the very basic definition of true love: a feeling that transcends mortal bounds and obstacles.

Quite simply, they’re bonded for life.



And thus I finish with Part Three. Wow. It’s long! I’ll post Part Four as soon as I can, and until then, I hope everyone can enjoy this.


ADMIN NOTE:

Previous Part, Next Part

DO NOT TURN this thread into a shipping debate. I'll look over this and remove "debate-y" posts later. Those posts slipped through the net as the mod team was severely understaffed when this thread came out.

-gal-texter, 2Jun2008

One has t o simply love your analysis mate! keep it up! I love how you turned seemingly Rhr moments in HHr ones.

Now if only JKR can read this we can possibly change her mind ... hopefully.
But none-the-less, as I read those tiny excerpts between Harry and Hermione I just can't take it. I mean, IT'S RIGHT THERE. After you read what they literally say to each other, you have a sense it's more!



And JKR would go, "Oh it's just platonic, really. Don't we all do that?"
:rollseyes:

let her speak. I don't care about what she says anymore. I know what I've seen in the books, and I'll stick with it.

I wish we can call Larry King (one of the best interviewers in the business) for the next interview with JK on CNN. I want him to "boobytrap" the interview so the cat will slip out of the bag and that we have better answers.

Better answers my foot! She would change her mind one week later...

Oooh!! I so am totally loving this thread!!! Thanks so much Padfoot_Lives for all the wonderful quotes and the incredible analysis and witty comments! Brother and sister, my butt! DH just screams H//Hr goodness! I love it!!! Great job! Fantastic job! I can't wait for your next post!!!

dear Padfoot_Lives,

thank you thank you and thank you again.
this thread is one of the best ever and i will keep rereading it when i'll fell sad thinking of how DH turned out.

your analysis is simply perfect, i'm discovering a lot of things that i missed in my frantic first read (i don't think there will be a second, so thank you again).

This is the most extensive H/Hr essay I've read in a long time and that's including all the alchemy essays I've read that prove why H/Hr's relationship is the strongest in the series. I just finished DH this morning and I'm happy to say it still doesn't sway my love for H/Hr. After reading your essay it only strengthens my love for H/Hr. JRK really had to go along way to separate H/Hr and the only way she could do it was by creating a set circumstances, that ensure they wouldn't end up with eachother. Hermione's love for Harry remained constant although she ran to Ron arms towards the end of the book. I think she would have tried to sacrifice herself for him,even during Harry and Voldemort's showdown. Yet Harry was not going to let her or anyone else attempt to do what Lily did for him. I think more than Ron's friendship,had it not been for Hermione being there for him until the end,Harry would have failed. He realized and acknowledged that fact for the first time in this book and it's probably the most emotionally compelling H/Hr book in the series. I can't wait to see the next part of your essay,I love it.

yeah, this is really a nice and well thought job. We definitely needed this.

Woohoo part 3 was incredible!! Please keep going--why couldn't you have written the books!

Oh yeah, I'd tape that interview and show it to my kids in bout 10 years, hehe. Great job on Part Three! Loved all the parts so far adn can't wait for teh next part! Keep it up!

This is such a great post! It really boosts my spirits after what I first thought was a horrible book. Thanks and I can't wait till Part 4.

Yes, fantastic. Harmony rocks!! It's amazing how strong we are. Deathly Hallows did NOT alter our beliefs (must be shocking to some!).

Awesome job.

I absolutely adore this thread, seriously. Who would have thought that we'd NOT come up with an alternate explanation after a few weeks? Wonderful job, Padfoot! You deserve major props for this. Can't wait to read parts 4 and 5!