merged with related thread - PK mods


Well, I feel a bit afraid of adding my two cents to this forum, as it seems I'm against the majority on this issue. But on the other hand, for that very reason, I feel compelled to do it. This regards the general mood on PK right now as I experience it. Bash me if you want, but here goes.

I see myself as a serious fan of the HP series, and I've always belonged to the H/Hr ship. So of course I'm disappointed our ship didn't sail. It's never fun to be proven wrong (especially not, as seen in the infamous interview given to certain leading persons of the rivaling ships, when you feel talked down to and, well, betrayed by the person you idolized), but more importantly, and I think this goes for all of us, we still feel we were "right" in the way that the clues we picked up supporting our theories just seemed, and still seem, more convincing than those employed by defenders of the other ships. That being said, despite my disappointment about the eventual shipping outcome of the series, I still enjoyed it tremendously. I loved every moment of the Deathly Hallows and was amazed at the way J.K. Rowling closed all the open questions we had from the previous instalments. True, there are a lot of things left unanswered, but this allows the readers to fantasize about the future. Really, I see two conflicting complaints here on PK about the ending and the epilogue in particular. People complain about the things not told, e.g. what happened during the 19 years, the professions, Malfoy's wife etc. At the same time, they complain that JKR quashed their ship by going into too many details, and that her real motivation behind the epilogue was to do that very thing. And then there are endless lists about the mistakes, loopholes, and inconsistencies in the books.

Well, let me just say that I feel left out. I love the books. I want to discuss them, and I don't mind being critical; I really don't want infinite enumerations of all the best quotes or the coolest moments or whatever, and there really are inconsistencies that should be discussed, but it is important to me that the discussions don't take the form of antagonism towards the books and their author.

So I ask the forum this: Am I alone in liking and enjoying, positively loving, the Deathly Hallows? Is there really no one else here who can't say they enjoyed the ride? Please add your opinion!

I should mention that I don't intend to generalize or step on anyone's toes, so if you feel I'm being unfair, I apologize. I'm merely desperate.

You're not alone, hon! I loved the book. I thought it ended well and I'm satisfied with it.

I've enjoyed reading the fan fiction here for several years and my son has even joined and spent one whole summer reading different stories written by the talented authors here. But I don't read the Harry/Hermoine stories because I don't see the chemistry there. I like the Draco/Ginny stories just for the fun of it.

Hi recelius! I have to say that at this point, I can't give glowing reviews of the book, but I do wish folks won't be hard on your opinion. It couldn't have been easy for you, posting what you did.

It'll be okay. I think you'll get positive responses and be able to discuss it to your heart's content.

I also urge you to have an open mind about a different opinion, because... well, there will be differing opinions.

of course not! I loved the book and the whole thing with the Deathly Hollows. I was astounded by what a turn around it did. I love the H/HR ship very much, but in order to be delusional, you have to see both ways.

You have to understand the book and how it works.

I think the part that threw off people liking the book as a whole was the epilogue.

We all have to remember that the only reason we would be fighting over this ship is because the books were soo brilliantly written.

I loved the book as well! The first fifteen chapters were too HBP-ish/fanficcish, in my opinion, but after that Rowling really got into her stride. I was blow away by how everything fit together, and I really can't wait to read it again. Overall, I think she did a great job with ending the series (ignoring the epilogue).

I really liked it. I thought the story was good and even the points that others see as inconsistencies. I found it easy to ignore the so called romantic points of the book. They was not well written so it was not hard for me to disregard.

I'm so glad you've started this topic. I love the H/Hr ship and even now I don't think anything else makes a lot of sense. Nevertheless, I enjoyed the rest of the book very much. I thought the ways in which JK chose to reveal answers was very well done.

I loved the whole journey through to the final battle. I was happy to see Snape had brilliantly played Voldemort and I was completely not expecting the depth of feeling he expressed for Lily. I was endeared to him and could understand Harry's comments about "bravest man I ever knew" because of it.

I loved that Dumbledore's backstory was explored so much more; throughout many of the books he had an infallible halo about him, then when that came crashing down he was cast as manipulative. Which is, I suppose, natural if the person you trust most in the world--your hero--turns out to be flawed, as we all are. Dumbledore was not perfect but wise enough to recognize those faults and cope as best he could. I suspect he could have told Harry much more than he did while he was alive, but I think he's also right that it had to be the right time for Harry to possess the Hallows or he wouldn't have been the greater wizard. I think the internal journey Harry took, which strengthened him to face Voldemort on his own would have been missing otherwise.

I love that Harry didn't have to cast the AK. It was Voldemort's own foolishness that did him in.

I love that Luna and Neville got such important roles in the final battle.

I loved the names of his kids; not necessarily their parentage.

I love Kreacher's change of heart toward Harry.

I love Ron's change of heart regarding House Elf rights--its the saving grace which makes a R/Hr match up remotely plausible, if you ask me.

Overall, I am not disappointed that this is the book to close out the series--Harry lived, and the world was again peaceful. If Harry had died, then I would have been angry. I can accept the way epilogue ended because we have to, though I don't quite understand it. There are a few things that bother me. I won't go into enormous detail because there are certainly other threads to discuss them.

Harry's with Ginny--she's a B story character, a fangirl from the start and Harry's feelings were so sudden, and for all the emphasis placed on love, I would have expected this to be more fleshed out; the whole thing seemed shallow to me.

Hermione's with Ron--they fought and fought for years, apparently not liking each other at all. Then Ron gets a book about how to pick up girls and suddenly he's winning her over. Whereas, Harry and Hermione's connection seemed unforced and natural. She stuck by Harry even in the worst of it, unlike Ron. Everytime Harry mentions protecting people no matter how long the list, Hermione's name always came first.

Ron's not with Luna--I just think this is a great pairing, and she always seemed to have a thing for him.

Hermione's middlename--Jean?!? I thought it was highly established that is was Jane.

Teddy Lupin is over at Harry's for dinner 4 nights a week--if Harry is his godfather why isn't he living there? Living with Tonks' parents I suppose since Harry was only 17 when Lupin and Tonks passed, but still.

How is it possible that Harry's kids don't know why people are staring? Sure I might buy the "my kids just think of me as "Dad" line, but it doesn't seem likely that they've never been out of the house before and seen the way people react to Harry.

Did Kingsley become Minister after becoming the temp?

Did McGonagall become Headmistress after battle?

Did Harry become an Auror?

How did Luna end up?

None of these questions are in particular order. I also don't think the epilogue was written specifically to undercut the ships that didn't sail, but to show that Harry finally got what he'd always wanted--a family of his own. I'll probably continue to read H/Hr fanfiction because I think that's the way it should be;plus just because all parents are there to see the children off does not mean they are still romantically linked. The only thing that say is that they love their children and were together sometime in the last 12 (age of oldest kid) years. I appreciate the story for what it is, and see that it works just fine as JK wrote it despite what I see as its flaws and remaining questions and enjoyed the story.

I liked the book. It's not my favorite, but it was a good way to finish out the series. There are a lot of things that I wish were different...but I'm not going to burn the book or chuck them away into the attic and never look at them again. So you're not alone. I liked it, and I loved Neville at the end...

It left me wondering why the book wasn't called Neville Longbottom and the Deathly Hollows

You're not alone. As a H/Hr shipper, I like DH very much! (PoA and OoTP will always be my favs though)
The background stories on Dumboldore and Snape were truly great. And I really enjoyed the DH plot. I thought th whole over plot was great. Its just the unanswered questions that are left behinde are what annoy me along with the shipping. I think I could easily accept R/hr( in canon) then I can take H/G. But that not the point, overal it was a great closing to a wonderful series.

OT:
Although it is beyond hysterical when I tell people who dont really know too much about HP but know just enough the series, about the ending of DH, they said "Who? when I tell them Harry ended up with Ginny! I have to explain shes rons younger sister. They all expected R/Hr which is understandable but they didnt expect H/G which I think is very telling.

this is the first time in all my years visiting portkey, that i'm adding a reply. first of all i want to mention that the ending was nothing that i didn't spected to happend, at least for me was clear as water, didn't make me happy thought. I LIKED the rest of te book, i thik that some parts of the plot were very surprising (at least for me) and very well tied up, but i LOVED the 16 chapter, the most beautiful part of all book no doubt, but still that was a very low thing to do; give us hope and then wrote that epilogue.

i liked i got to know a little bit more of dumboldore, he is one of my favorite characters and closest to my heart, i really enjoyed it. i felt really sorry about lupin and tonks (cryed fo hours), and about snape i still don't know what to think, i'm not happy that he died but i can't fell sorry ether.

in conclusion, i liked DH, enjoyed it, made me laugh and cry (both happiness and of course disappointment). the picture of harry and hermione holding hands, in front of his parents grave and snow all around them will always live in my heart. thank you for reading.


note: i speak spanish, no english, sorry for spelling or grammar mistakes

I'm with you here.

I read DH in 2 days, already fully knowing the shipping outcome that had leaked in every local newspaper; well they did not openly admit that it was real, they said they did not know, but it matched all together so I told myself it was certainly true, and accepted it; I was certainly not happy about it, but I did. I took off my shipping glasses and bought the book, determined not to let my disappointment about it ruin my appreciation of the story.

So my verdict: a very entertaining and hooking book, except for the romance. JKR definitely sucks at writing romance, and I'm not saying it only because it wasn't H/Hr, which I certainly would have prefered. I'm saying this because I never grew attached to her chosen pairings. I still don't like the way R/Hr behave with each other in DH, and can't buy the couple. And funnily enough, in the epilogue, there is still not real improvement in their relation even after 19 years and 2 kids.

H/G is still worse. Still nothing but physical attraction between those 2. A big fat nothing. Apart from longing to snog Ginny, there is nothing that makes a long term relationship between her and Harry believable. And in the epilogue, there is still nothing. They remind me of some couples I know whose only common point seems to be their kids. Apart from when they talk about their kids, they have nothing to say and read the newspapers in front of each other. Harry's ship should have been way more meaningful. Heck, we even get more feelings from him when he talks or thinks about Luna.

This being said, yes it's OBHWF, but apart from the epilogue, it almost goes unnoticed (except of course for H/G big snog, the locket/Ron torture episode and the R/Hr kiss - very poorly written). So, although very unpleasant, this is tolerable.

Plot:
What I liked (not necessarily in this order):
-Dumbledore's backstory (he was almost more present in this book than in any other) and the manipulation he orchestrated. The reason for the "gleam of triumph" revealed. The fact that Rita Skeeter does states real facts in her book (it's her interpretation of them that is wrong).
-Snape's backstory. As others have said, I wish JKR had taken more time to tell about him and Lily. And the complexity of Snape's character. He is far more interesting than Voldemort.
-Neville (he rocks in this book, totally). I'm so proud of him, such an achievement from the shy and clumsy boy of book 1. That is great.
-Luna and her father Xenophilius (OK he betrayed Harry but the poor bloke was so afraid. His love for his daughter is touching).
-The final confrontation between Harry and Voldie. OK yes I was expecting something different, but still the final dialogue between the two was interesting, and Harry might have imperiused people, he still did not commit murder. It might have been better, but yet it was OK.
-The fact that most of the action was not in Hogwarts. This was very different and interesting, and quite realistic as for the difficulties the trio has (finding a secure place to stay and enough food to survive).
-The darkness of the book. This is war, and finally we can feel it.
-The irony of Lupin telling Harry he should not use the disarming spell, because it's kind of his signature and allowed the DE's to recognize him, and finally Harry wins using expelliarmus. Very funny.
-Personally I found everything about Voldemort's takeover, and the resistance movement and the secret radio and all very entertaining.
-Harry finding his mother's letter in Sirius' room.

The only thing I can think about for thow that I really didn't like (besides OBHWF) is that we don't know anything about Harry, Ron and Hermione's, and most of the others', life after Hogwarts. OK we know that Neville teaches Herbology at Hogwarts. But wouldn't have we deserved to know for the others, if only for Harry.

overall the book isn't bad but its not nearly as good as POA, GF or OOTP in my opinion. My biggest problem is that this serious and book was hyped up so much that when we finally got it, I don't think it delivered as it should have for as much hype as it recieved. There are some holes and other mistakes, some unanswered questions ie the veil and dom door, characters future jobs, a lot of characters futures. Also i think if you remove the epilogue Rowling does a lot of justice to fans they can then go on to believe what they want, but with the epilogue Rowling tells you what happens to the main trio.

I liked the book, more than HBP, but I didn't like how...plain some parts were. I also felt that some of the deaths were unnecessary, like Hedwig's, for example.

What I felt had ruined the book was the epilouge. And their kids' names for crying out loud X( Albus Severus....No. Freaking. Way. Of course, I did not like the final pairings but oh well.

I loved the plot though even though I felt that it didn't fall along the lines of destroying with love. Like I was expecting some freakish power to erupt from Harry's real wand and jack Voldemort up but no... Just a simple backfire.

Sorry, I just had to say thank god someone mentioned this, even if it is in a signature. Its so true!

AHHH so then your more fanciable as ever is still on the underground. Good I m a sister and I never in my whole life thought this way for my brother sorry.
Sister yeah she is probably pissed that Harrry didnt make a move on her during their wandering

merged with related thread - PK mods

OKay, now I am sure I am going to get flamed or whatnot but...

Why does it seem that so many Harmonians absolutely HATE Deathly Hallows? Granted obviously because our ship didn't sail, but is that really all?

I though the book was excellent, the plot was great. And, (I know some, if not most, will disagree) I even like the R/Hr. I didn't think it was done horribly. The H/G? Eh. But I could live with it.

Is all the shipping wars really ruined your love for Harry Potter? I know this question has been addressed before, but for everyone who calls the book a big piece of crap and wanting to write to JKR about how horrible the romance was, remember there's always fandom! And isn't that always better than canon?

Personally, and please don't freak out, I liked the R/Hr.

Well, I liked DH, and I'm just wondering how many could've hated it. Was it just because of no H/Hr? Hmmm...

i believe that Dh was awesom.....i don't like the epilogue that much but who cares about it......but the book was well writen

I.... wouldn't sing praises like that just yet. The book had its merits. Its action was exciting. Some things were handled well.

Not "all is well" though. It's not perfect and there are many points about it that DOESN'T make it a well-written book.

But eh...

Why thanks! X3 I have 3 brothers so I felt like someone had run me over or something when I read the "Hermione is like a sister to me" scene! I would never say something like that to my brothers. It's creepy. Even the fanciable thing is weird to say to a sibling!

I enjoyed the book immensely, it was a wonderful 15 hour journey. The dimmed light in my room during the middle of the night, with the sound of the rain crashing against my window......oh dear, how sad have I become. My only problem was that I had h/hr on my mind while reading the book and I sort of scene little bits of the epilogue.

My feelings mirror AdamantEve's. It's not a bad book; there were definitely some things in it that were interesting. It's just not a great book either; not in my opinion anyway. Too many things were either poorly explained, poorly handled, or poorly written. I was really disappointed that this is the final chapter in a series I've loved so much. I was expecting so much better.

I really enjoyed the book. It made me love the Harry Potter series again.
Despite my noticing some plot holes, previous canon inconsistencies, and unresolved threads, I still liked it.
As a matter of fact, I liked the way she portrayed the R/Hr relationship in this book. Still, I prefer H/Hr so I guess I'll get my dose of them in fanfic.

So you're not alone. I'm a proud H/Hr shipper, since July 2003 when I read the first five books. To me, there's no other better girl for Harry than Hermione, and no Epilogue is going to stop me from shipping them together,

I have to grudgingly agree with you completely on this one. Lol. It's not a popular opinion. Many people hated the way RHr was developed in this book, but I honestly think this was the best portrayal of their romance, yet, even if I did wish HHr got it together.

First of all, thanks for all your kind replies. I'm glad I'm not alone



I'm with you here. It wasn't all bad, and a lot has happened since the Yule Brawl back in book 4, even if it sometimes seemed kind of forced. Ron, in my opinion, and despite his faults and mistakes in this book, sort of redeemed himself, and it seems at least credible that Hermione might fall for him (this was always my biggest issue. Somehow I never had problems with Ron liking Hermione, only the other way around). But still, even though Ron has definitely matured, I also feel that Hermione's maturity sort of declined, at least in her interaction with Ron, so that they sort of met halfway. That was always my primary objection to R/Hr getting together and the reason I'm not wild about it. However, Ron has worked out his issues and got over them, so I'm somewhat happy

I haven't been around since a few months after HBP was released. Too much of the FF focused on turning Ginny and Ron into the bad guys. As a Harry/Hermione shipper though I really missed this place and everyone here who shared my belief in these two. And now I'm back because after I read this I truly knew it was over.

"She's like my sister," he went on. "I love her like a sister and I reckon she feels the same way about me. It's always been like that. I thought you knew."

There was no coming back. And when I read that I thought of all of you. Of us. Our definitive defeat. I was disappointed. Sad. A little angry. But not at all surprised. And I kept going. I read on. And I loved it. I love this book. It is far and away the best of the series. The epilogue was definitely the weakest chapter and the ships are less than half the problem with it.

I'm sorry for our ship and my fellow shipmates but I'm even sorrier for those who let it taint their entire experience reading afterward. I even feel that Jo acknowledged us and our dedication. DH had the best H/HR moments of the 7. She even gave us a kiss to look forward to in the movies! Not to mention Ron's absence from the trio leaves a perfect opening for an alternate route for our PK authors.

Oh, dear. I agree with the alternate route, of course, but I don't think I'll see the movies anymore, if you'll forgive me. Lol.

I thought it was great book. It had great moments, but it also had some bad ones.

Was it as good as the first 5? No

Was it as bad as the 6th? Nowhere near it.

Could it have been better? Heck, yes!

I thought this book was absolutely brilliant in every single way. Sure, the epilogue left a little to be disired, but I think JKR really wanted to end the book with Harry's kids leaving for Hogwarts, and there was no real way to accomplish this while explaining every little B character detail, and have it all run smoothly together.
Personally I loved the All was well ending. I mean, what better way to send our hero off into the sunset? Sure it doesnt mean every little thing is perfect, but it never could be, and thats not what is important, and I think JKR didnt want us dwelling on all the small details. Plus she left plenty of things (romances, coping, etc) up for fanfiction.
The epilouge, was obviously not written for the purpose of explaining every little detail of the characters lives, even if thats waht she originally intended. It was written for the reader to experience a high of sorts, after the defeat of Voldemort, and seeing Harry finally having what he wants, and being content. This is the main thing adressed here, as well as him honoring Snape.

I also loved Ron in this book, and am thrilled he made it out alive. Hes that guy who always has a comment or funny remark, and while no hes isnt the most mature person ever, he doesnt care either, and thats part of his charm. I think this is why R/Hr works so well. Herms is a bossy girl in general, and can usually make Ron bend to her will. Harrys to stubborn for her, and Ron needs someone to keep him on track when he starts wandering off the right path.

Really the only thing I was dissapionted by was the lack of Ginny. I love her character and am dissapionted we didnt get to see her and Harrys relationship grow. (however, we can assume it did, which is something fanfic people will go crazy over, obviously not here though,...but anyway) The more I thought about it though, the only real way to have her involved heavily was to let her go with the trio, but that sounds like something out of a bad fanfic, it was always meant to only be the trio. Realistically, an underage witch, coming from a targeted family, isnt going to be able to do much besides what she did. So to conclude my point, I wished there had been of her, but the more I consider it, there wasnt really any way to do that more than she did without seriously disrupting the flow of the story.
Harrys feelings for her then, could only be expressed in small snippets throughout the book, which there are more there than at first read. I think his true feelings were shown at the end, when he was about to be killed by Voldemort. He thought not of his friends or parents or Dumbledore or anyone, but Ginny. I think from this we can conclude that the seeds of love are there and starting too, and really already have, grown some. So while I wished there was more of her, I was content by the way she was done with Harry.

This was the Lord of the Rings for our generation, the timeless classic that will be enjoyed, quite frankly, forever. And while its easy to nitpick JK and the stuff she left out, its also important to remember that she hasnt ruled out writing more in the potterverse. (I dont think itll happen personally) But the beauty of the internet is she can tell us what does happen to this secondary characters, and the smaller details of the main characters. So she didnt feel pressured to put them in her book because of this.
Basically my point is, this isnt the last we'll here from JKR, she has countless notebooks filled with character stories, and Id bet serious money we'll see a lot of these craved details on her site before too long, so dont stress too much over the end, or let the epilouge ruin the book.

That's exactly how I feel about the coupling. I agree that Harry and Hermione have a natural bond and H/G more than R/Hr (to me at least) was so forced. If JKR had built up that Harry may have had a little thing for Ginny since the first or second book (like she did for Ginny for Harry) then Harry's feelings for Ginny would not have come out nowhere and the pairing would be more understandable (she did better job with Cho and Harry).

I was disappointed that H/Hr didn't end up together and I'll admit I did lose almost complete hope after reading HBP. But, when Ron abandoned Harry and Hermione... I thought maybe, maybe something will happen between the two of them, but no... nothing did.

I felt exactly like how Poetic Chaos did after learning Harry's feelings for Hermione were only brotherly. I also felt the same way about the epilogue. It was definitely the weakest part of the whole book and felt more like a quick addition to appease the masses. Still, at least it showed that Voldemort did not somehow return and "all was well".

I still enjoyed the book though and I was quite pleased with how it ended (despite the pairings). I thought JKR did a great job and I'm sad that it's over.

Overall, I felt Deathly Hallows was well-plotted and well-paced. The extensive back stories of Dumbledore and Snape captured my imagination just as Voldemort's back story had in the Half-Blood Prince. It made these men three-dimensional characters who played understandably critical roles in the downfall of Voldemort.

The message that came across most strongly for me was that this is at its heart Harry's story. Ron, Hermione, Ginny, Draco, Neville, Luna and all the other characters help Harry along his journey; a journey Harry has to complete on his own. The book effectively shows the distancing between himself and everyone else. He learns to rely on himself to find the courage and conviction to keep going. For me one of the most powerful lines in the book was when as he entered the Forbidden Forest he briefly thought back to those in the castle and how they seemed like the distant memory, that his reality lay with the shades accompanying him into the forest. Only Harry had the power to defeat the Dark Lord, so only what Harry did and felt mattered at the end.

I always felt that Harry had to complete the journey on his own. To borrow a line from another great series, the Dark is Rising by Susan Cooper, '... and one go alone.' That, for me, sums up Harry's mission. As a result, I did not mind the relationships (although I admit holding out a small hope that Ginny would fall in the battle) even though they acted as a bit of a flat note in an otherwise wonderfully orchestrated piece.

The only thing I truly missed was Fawkes. I was sure he would somehow help Harry.

So yes, I too found Deathly Hallows a fitting end to a strong series.

Ift definetly wasn't my favorite book, but I don't hate it. It had a fairly good plot line, just some really odd errors like Hermione modifiying her parents memories, then a few chapters later saying shes never done it but knows the theory. The whole Deathly Hollows idea really made me think about geneology about the pureblood wizards something I've always been interested about, and also I'm glad she gave Luna and Neville bigger parts. The wedding scene was a really cool to read to, also the finally showdown so to speak, with his parents, Sirius, and Lupin coming back, then talking to Dumbledore, then killing Voldie with his own AK. What really helped my liking of the book was the chapter Godric's Hollow, and then where Ron had to face his fears to destroy the locket. Hey at least H/Hr shippers got one kiss in, even if it wasn't really them!
But she didn't put in Crooks, or Fawkes which really made me mad. You would think that Fawkes would have shown up somewhere, or Crooks or even Pig would have come along with Hermione or Ron.
So overall, its better than HBP my least favorite, and worse then Order of the Phoenix or Goblet of Fire, my two favorites. But I think it was a pretty good end to a very good series, I mean after all its an end of an era!

Okay.... I think this book was a liked by many people on H/Hr ship for many different reasons and atleast in some parts. I am probably in the minority because aside from the H/Hr moments I saw, I hated the rest of the book. The plot, plot holes, mistakes, the odd characterization of Ron, Hermione, Snape and Harry. Oddly enough loved Dumbledore's evilish ways.

Some of the plot holes, the mistakes etc, I wouldn't have had noticed if I didn't get into the spoiler discussion, and prolly wouldn't have had seen them coming ( Hermione's memory charm useage abbaration, final duel, hallows ). However, the fact is I did see them, and I didn't like them. From the vast number of people posting on many different threads about their DH expereince I see quite a people like the overall plot, and how the book went even without shipping being not in their favour. So I think no one here is alone in liking their book. It differs in the overall opinion, because people assign different quotient to different things importance.

I personally put it below all the books interms of how much I liked it, and the characterisations. But I've talked to a few few friends who, post hbp had a severe reaction against JKR, have actually liked the book some didn't mind the R/Hr.

To me that is a sore point is still. But not in the way most people assume just reading the word shipping. It's the way it was done. To me it seemed that all of Harry's niceness towards Hermione was sucked out and put into Ron. Harry was indifferent in places where it didn't seem to fit past behaviour. Now, this is what had to happen for R/Hr to happen. However, it could have been done the otherway around just as easily by JKR. One line of introduction of sexual feelings, and it would have had seemed better in comparison. Anyway , even that is not the issue - For me - I think the issue is what we debated in the debating forums post GoF and OOtP. We always believed that Ron needed to become like Harry to get Hermione. And now we do have that happen. And we always thought that Hermione would need to change and become docile for that to happen, and it did. The changed characters maybe character development to some people, but to me it's a cop out.

Some things that bother me still is how house unity - does not include Slytherins. How Hermione is so bloody no political, and not really caring about the elf rights. Overall still do not like the convinience of a lot of things. Some things could have been avoided with hints in previous books.

** sigh **

Yup...I agree with both you guys...I thought it was a good read...though I wasn't expecting it to be better or anything at all really I had low expectations going into it really, but was surprised that is was way better then HBP. I liked this one a lot though...I think that there were definitely parts though where I felt as though JKR missed a chance or two to truly sparkle...like for example the way in which Molly took on Bella....now I know a lot of people really like Molly (personally she's not one of my favorites so this might sound like I'm just picking on her, but I'm not...) But the fact that it was her that took her on...with that whole "Not my Daughter B*tch thing" was so out of the blue...there was no poetic justice...if ANYONE should have had that big moment in the Dueling Ring it should have been Neville's Grandmother!

As for the relationships...I agree with most people here that they are all awkward to read...and seemed forced, even Tonks and Lupin (and no that has nothing to do with the fact that I ship R/S...though it was awfully suspicious that Lupin was so unhappy with it...LOL.. ) H/Hr as always just seemed to flow off the page, Chapter 16 was amazingly sweet and beautiful! And ALL the places were it was just H/Hr/R, when there wasn't any kind of hinted relationship other then their tight family unit, those moments were fantastic to read...it brought me back to when I was 12 and reading the 1st book. In fact it ended on such a good note with the three of them in the last chapter before the epilog, that I didn't even bother to read it. I just stopped read there, I thought Harry's last lines in that chapter, and him wondering if Kreacher would bring him a sandwich in bed was a splendid ending! LOL.... So all and all this last one wasn't the greatest...that spot goes to books 1,3,and 5 IMO but it was better then the 6th one and I think the 2nd...So I was pleased with it, and will forever be greatful to the whole series for taking me on the adventure...it turned a 12 year old Book/School Hater into a READER, changing my world forever and for that I LOVE IT

Oh, thank goodness!!! I really thought I was the only one that really liked it too. Ahh!! That is so exciting for me!!

So HHr didn't sail. We saw the chemistry there, and JKR didn't. RHr had a kissing scene. So what?

I thought the book was amazing. By far my favorite in the series. It made me cry and laugh so many times. Ironically, one of my favorite parts was the RHr kiss, especially when Harry said, "Is this a moment?". haha, oh I died right there.

Of course the book had its issues, but it had many other lovely parts to make up for it. It's interesting that everyone has such differing opinions, whether it be about shipping or the plot. It makes discussing it more enjoyable.

Seriously, you are very much NOT alone in this. I love HHr, and it didn't happen, but everyone has there opinions. We can't take this too personally.

This thread cheered me up! Thanks!

much love, jae

Oh yes, I like the idea of Ron leaving Harry and Hermione in the forest for an alternate route. Maybe H/HR go find a magical place in the forest like...say...Avalon and get busy and have a kid named angelica instead of albus severus

I agree with nappa here there were so many parts of this book that were left with big gaping plot holes and contradictories that a large portion of books 6 and 7 did not line up with what was done in the previous 5 books.. characters were changed from what they were originally designed and story lines that were started completely vanished... ill admit that jkr is a decent author but she is not a good or great author... her series came out too quickly and she did one thing that in a way hurt her story she wrote the epilogue first. I have corresponded with many authors over time, I once attempted to become an author so I had decided to seek guidance from those who had been there before and they have told me that to make a good book series or a single book in general you must have certain key elements and you must always pay attention to what you write. Reason is that what you originally have planned might change as you go along as your characters gain life and they do have a tendency to get away from you.... but if you are able to control how you write and able to control your characters you can become a great writer... in my opinion to be great you must take the time and must have the patience in order to study and examine what you have written and to take care of what is going on in your story so it stays fluent... Great authors are rare to find by when they do come along their stories last for generations... and jkr lost control of her creation as time went by thats why in the last two books the personalities of our favorite characters in this series became so different than what we had seen... She found her mistakes and attempted to make up for it but it was too late.

in my opinion to become great you must be able to write and pull your audience into your story like tolkien had done, as well as David Eddings and his wife Leigh have done... i could go on forever with all the authors that i truly admire for their outstanding work but this would go on forever.

::hides:: I swear, I'm writing it! Next chapter's almost done!

I really dont see why people dont like DH if we're talking about shipping here. It had the best Harry/Hermione moments ever written in cannon. You cant hate it can you?

Hey ricelius,

I agree with you - I loved the Deathly Hollows. It was full of action and adventure, and before the book I felt I wouldn't be soon keen with it being set away from Hogwarts, but the return to Hogwarts and the way the school rallied behind Harry made that all very worth it

The only thing that disappointed me really was the epilogue. I'd have loved a longer one learning about change in the wizarding world and the futures and careers of Harry, Hermione, Ron, Ginny and the whole crowd.

Other than that I thoroughly enjoyed the whole story and found the twists and turns amazing.

I really, really, really liked the book. I'm no uber-critic, to be sure, and --full disclosure-- I've always been more of a buoy than a shipper. Still, I loved all of the subplots and the twists and turns! Reading this book, for me, was an emotional rollercoaster ride--especially the Snape parts! OH! I was so happy with Snape's romantic subplot, and I'm probably the only Lily/James ship-supporter that enjoyed it.

Overall, I found Deathly Hallows to be a phenomenal book, and while all my questions aren't answered, I almost prefer it that way.

I loved it...

but it gets a little frustrating in some areas.

I finally finished the book tonight. I'd have to agree with the original poster. Despite the ship not sailing, I actually thought the book as a whole was fantastic. It's my favorite in the series, which is a feat considering GoF has been my favorite for a few years running now. I'm really glad I didn't read spoilers beforehand, because I really think I'd be a lot more harsh about it. It was a great story with a satistfying ending, and that's all I can really ask for. Maybe I would have done it a bit differently, but hey....I'm not the author.

And I agree that there were some beautiful H/Hr moments in here. We'll always have that to look back on.

Yes, the R/Hr and H/G shippers can have their relationships founded on bickering and sexual attraction.

What is set in stone is that our ship was repeatedly given the ONLY beautiful, deep, meaningful moments between a girl and boy in the entire series (well as far as I'm concerned anyway).

I think I liked DH. I'm not sure yet. I'll have to reread it when I have got it completely out of my system.

Off topic:
I just realised this morning that one of the reasons R/Hr and H/G really annoy me is this: How often do guys end up marrying the chick they were going out with when they were 17?? And how many guys end up marrying the second chick they have ever kissed?? It's just so freaking unrealistic!!

It seems like so many in the wizarding world are expected to marry their highschool sweetheart. The epilogue would have been more realistic if H/R/Hr all came together to see off their kids, and they were all married to randoms. Lol!

I just wanted to comment on the people who are complaining about the change of behavior in these pat two books compared to the previous five, and that being a part of the reason they didnt like the book. I just want to say, well what did you expect??? I mean, people change from the time they are 11, to the time they are 17-18. They even change from the time they are 15 to the time they are 17-18. Loads, really. Its just like all these people are all shocked about the maturity coming from Ron now, and yet, it had to happen didnt it? Anyway I just wanted to vent about that a little bit, I mean, how incredibly boring story if the characters had all stayed somewhat static.

Oh yeah and I just wanted to say something about the comment NAPPA made about herms being non-political. Well of course she was, she was busy with the horcruxes. Regardless though, while she didnt ever really say anything about it, it obviously still meant a great deal to her. I say this because when R/Hr finally had their "moment" it was not brought about by Ron's smooth moves out of a book, or even him comforting her. It was brought on by him being concerned about House-elves. Just thought this was a fact some people have been overlooking....

Sariele-

Off topic:
I just realised this morning that one of the reasons R/Hr and H/G really annoy me is this: How often do guys end up marrying the chick they were going out with when they were 17?? And how many guys end up marrying the second chick they have ever kissed?? It's just so freaking unrealistic!!

It seems like so many in the wizarding world are expected to marry their highschool sweetheart. The epilogue would have been more realistic if H/R/Hr all came together to see off their kids, and they were all married to randoms. Lol!



I highly agree with this actually, and in our world its very true. Thats why I also thought R/Hr couldnt happen till late in the series if they were going to stay together. However, I think the war pushed their maturity ahead a little bit, as well as people would have hated that ending. (Harry with a muggle?, or lavlav? please) Marrying younger is also a trend in the wizarding world, as they have much less of a selection (discounting muggles) and the Gryffindors seem pure enough at heart to make it seem somewhat realistic. A very good point though.

Though I"m dissapointed our ship didn't sail, I loved it also. The grave yard scene and the long walk to death scene were probably two of my favorite in the whole series.

This book would've been perfect to me if these few things happened:
1) Neville was the one who faced off against Bellatrix
2) All the references to Ginny were thrown out...she's rather useless
3) Ron/Hermione...I could tolerate it, but have the "sister" line cut and maybe also their big make out scene
4) Have Harry/Hermione just as is in the book, except for a conversation between the two at the end where he finally directly acknowledges her steadfast loyalty and friendship throughout the whole series (even when all others doubted him), and she very subtly intimates her feelings towards him. They talk about the past, the enormity of what just happened and their future. The nature of this conversation is such that the readers gleam there is and always will be a special bond between the two as well as the possibility for a future romance, thus, leaving the shipping and the future sort of open ended, yet hopeful.
5) The epilogue is cut. The only use it served was Harry's acknowledgment of Snape, but that can be mentioned in the conversation above.

That would've been the perfect book for me.

I think the wizarding world is very different in terms of this than our (the real) world is. We can raise our eyebrows at the concept, but JKR set it up in her world very realistically. It's common. Lily and James and Arthur and Molly were both couples together since Hogwarts, and they are the two couples emulated in the books.

One one hand I thought Deathly Hallows was wonderful. It was at once exciting, thrilling and at times absolutely heart rending. I actually cried when Harry found out he was a horcrux and he finally understood that he would have to die in order for all the horcruxes to be destroyed. The trip though the forest where he is joined with all of them that had gone before him was both sad and beautiful. The plot had me literally riveted on the edge of my seat the entire time and I thought the ending (not the epilogue) was awesome. On the other hand, the shipping parts of the story kind of made me gag. I had to squint really hard to make it through all the R/Hr and H/G moments. If we couldn't have H/Hr I would have preferred to have seen no mention at all of ships. Just the usual friendship between the three of them. The shipping moments were just really annoying to me. At least we were only subjected to very few scenes of Harry snogging, thinking of or yearning for Ginny. The epilogue was crap, I have to agree on that. Think about it. Seriously, Albus Severus???? Even though Harry found out that Severus was, in the end, not really evil, he still was responsible for James and Lilly and the awful, cruel way he treated Harry. This is how you would treat the son of the woman you had loved almost all of your life? Would you name one of your children for someone like that?

I think it was a very good book but could have been truly great, had JKR not passed on the opportunity to make her series end on a truly incredible note with the pairing of Harry and Hermione. I was saddened by the way H/Hr's relationship was torn apart in the last two books and missed the chemistry between them in books 1 - 5. Book 7 Hermione was better than HBP Hermione but not by much. One thing I didn't like was all the crying and sobbing she did in this book. It just diminished her, IMO. And I also felt like JKR had to dumb down Harry in order to build up Ron so he would be suitable for Hermione. I don't know. Maybe JKR had to pair R/Hr in order for Harry to be completely on his own, no Hedwig, no Dobby with even his wand abandoning him in the end.

I was actually dreading reading DH with all the spoilers and such out there, but I enjoyed it immensely.

I'll admit I've been among those who've commented on the changes in H/R/Hr personalities. The point there being, not that people don't change as they get older but that they seemed to change but without any impetus or reason to that resonated throughout the other books. Why does Hermione suddenly appear so apolitical? Sure, she was in the hunt for the Horcuxes but even she the great defender of House Elf Rights forgets them in the heat of battle. Then we hear none of her convictions after the battle or in the epilogue. Plus Hermione had always valued the knowledge gleaned from books, but she was never so hardheaded as to reject theories--not without thorough investigation first, but she didn't do that this book she blew the Hallows theory off when she didn't get answers that fit her sense of logic. It made her seem as if she'd learned hardly anything from Harry about life outside a textbook.

Sure Ron did mature slightly nearing the end of the book, but he hadn't for 6 years. He didn't have any new understanding of the need for House Elf Rights or increased rights of other creatures after Dobby saved them and died in the act. He was uncomfortable with it the idea (see conversation with Griphook,) and he has one shining moment of maturity before the battle--this is after he deserted his friends, and after the battle he showed immense immaturity when he wanted Harry to keep the wand even though Harry had explained the dangers. Ron had every reason to step up to the plate and become more mature, but I'd hardly call it a rousing success. He may have made progress but certainly not enough to garner the unremitting affections of Hermione.

Even Harry was off in this book--he finally bloomed into the leader we knew he could become, but then he would fall into these moments of insecurity, and flat out forgetfulness that were uncharacteristic of him even in his earlier years. War changes people and it tests people's strength so it seems odd to me that in the middle of his greatest strength, he would experience his lowest low. Wouldn't you think he'd be buffered against that type of lapse, especially at such critical moments?

I absolutely loved DH, I dunno why people expected Harmony to sail anyway.

I just consider it lucky that Harry and Hermione get the most emotionally poignant scene in the book together (at the graveyard in Godric's Hollow) and H/G seemed tacked on. I actually enjoyed the R/Hr in this book, especially the lunging kiss, i thought it was quite well written (even if the romance between the two was so crappy in books 1-5).

But yeah, the epilogue is fit to dry a cat and not much more

I am glad to see that more people like the book then what I thought. I enjoyed the book, also. I might've missed a lot of the plot wholes with all the excitment of reading it and also reading it too fast. I am extremely sad that it is over. I absolutely loved the back stories of Dumbledore and loved to hear that he isn't the most perfect person we knew him to be.