yeah..but you got remember is all in Ron's head. So it not Real.
beside didn't evil-H/hr Kiss..
I thought is totally H/hr moment..it make Ron's jealous or fear that H/hr will get together.

Wow, I didn't notice that!


Definitely powerful and full of meaning! The only difference is they are not married nor have they a kid to protect...

Yay! I'm finally back on PK. I finished DH 4 days ago, but I've been without internet connection due to my being on holiday
After the disaster that was DH, I must say I think I fell in love with most of you when I was reading this thread and the old one, because all your comments and thoughts really cheered me up.
It's not just because of the shipping outcome I dislike the book, it's because of the way the plot developed as well, but that's beside the point, and I'll talk about it in another thread. This is a Harmony thread, so Harmony is what I will focus on:




See? Harry really is uncofortable with the idea of Hermione and Ron kissing




When I turned on my computer today, this is what I planned on posting as my favourtite H/Hr moment, but then I read all that has been posted here, and I have to agree that the grave scene was just as good, if not better. Anyway, I've had a fanfiction brewing in my head for two days now about what should have happened after the head touch, and I plan to write it withing the next few days. I really need to getg it out of my system before I start reading other people's versions of this scene



Thank you, for completely changing my view on Deathly Hallows. I can accept the ships now... or almost at least




Are you sure he ripped his shirt off? I just read it as Harry pulling the neck of the shirt away from his body, so that he could look down it. I think he kept it on.

Thats just brill. Thats everything I've ever wanted to say but could just never figure out how. And you are so right. This is about Harry's realationship with the Dark Lord, and not his romances. Harry and Hermione are meant to be together but this is not their story.....thats just beautiful.....

And you are so right, if Harry and Hermione had gotten together their realationship would have overshadowed the rest of the story. This is why JKR chose R/HR, and H/G in the end. But she made sure to write in in that something was there between them. That was truly a wonderful post, thank you for your thoughts.

Who wrote that btw?

On a lighter note.


OMG I tottaly thought the same thing when I read that! Im like "jealous mucccch????"

My ultimate favorite scene. In probably all of the books. Funny thing that it's in the sink-ship-book.

Book Version : US Scholastic
Page : 329
Quote : "Hermione had taken his hand again and was gripping it tightly. He could not look at her, but returned the pressure, now taking deep sharp gulps of the night air, trying to steady himself, trying to reagin control. He should have brought something to give the, and he had not thought of it, and every plant in the graveyard was leafless and frozen. But Hermione raised her wand, moved it in a circle through the air and a wreath of Christmas roses blossomed before them. Harry caught it and laid it on his parents' grave.

As soon as he stood up he wanted to leave. He did not think he could stand another moment there. He put his arm around Hermione's shoulders, and she put hers around his waist, and they turned in silence and walked away through the snow, past Dumbledore's mother and sister, back toward the dark church and the out-of-sight kissing gate."

Reason : It's so beautiful...and so real...Unlike the "kiss," it's real. A genuine Harmony moment. Anyone watching them would think they were a couple. And they even are disguised as a married couple. And it's such a beautiful scene. There's the church with the carolers singing inside, the stain glass reflected on the untouched snow, and Harry and Hermione. Together. Alone. No thoughts of Ron or Ginny at all. Just each other. Hermione there to comfort Harry during a very emotional moment. The first time he sees his parents' grave and the place they once lived with him when he was a baby. This would have been a perfect scene to use as an epilogue. For one brief moment, everything is perfect. When I first heard about this scene it was as a spoiler and I cried. I literally bawled my eyes out. I cried again when I read this scene, though not as much because I had already heard about it so many times. But if I had read this, completely unawares, I would have been sobbing.

Oh my gosh...Whoever wrote that...I LOVE you!!! That made my entire day!!! That makes so much sense, even though I don't think that was JKR's intention. I wish it was. I just think she's bad at writing romance.

But yeah. I really think that H/Hr was probably too big of a thing that would have overshadowed everything else. It did a good job of it even as it is! I will always firmly believe that what H/Hr have is more powerful than anything Ron and Hermione and Harry and Ginny will EVER have, put together! Even if what H/Hr have is just friendship. It is so close, so binding, what more do they need? We missed out on what could have been some truly beautiful moments, but even now we are left with more than the Herons and Chocos ever had. They have every reason to be jealous of us! The scenes we do have are so captivating. Hermione is the only person Harry referred to with the words "I love". Never does he say that about Ginny. I really believe that in real life, things wouldn't have turned out like they did. Harry and Hermione, being as close as they are, would now be married with kids. What happened made no sense and there is nothing that can convince me that it ever could.

Sometimes I wonder if JKR changed her mind after the IoD and decided she liked H/Hr better. But, it was too late to change it because she had already given her final word regarding ships in the IoD. In DH it seemed like when she was writing it like a child in a factory with a task to complete and constantly getting whipped for stopping to daydream about better possibilities...She wrote as if she felt obligated to put R/Hr together and H/G together, but she couldn't resist the beauty of H/Hr.

Forever Delusional! We sail at dawn!!! LONG LIVE HARMONY!!!!!

Yes, JK has often stated that the relationships were not o important for the main plot, although being love the power Voldie new not, one would have expected them to be more central for the story. In the end it was another kind of love that was important.



Loved the graveyard scene, really sweet and showing how much those two can complete each other without even speaking a word.

WOW! What warm words these are to my eyes when I read them. A big hug to whoever wrote this would make my day. That was utter brillant, and of course there's something out there because of how close they could ever get, even closer then Harry would be with Ginny or Hermione would be with Ron. I also think that their love would have overshadowed anything around in the story despite the fact that I always desired that as the prime weapon to defeat Voldemort - something which could have transcended all kinds of magic. Anyway, I guess that would have been too big of a monkey on the back of the story itself.

Anyway, maybe JK wrote what she wrote under that purpose, maybe not, we'll never know. If she was able to pull so many great moments between Harry and Hermione worthy of the greatest romantic moments in Hollywood movies' history, I don't believe she'd be that bad in writing romance. The more I think, the more I believe she lost some interest into creating HP and might not have had the strength left to write something which would have expanded so much way beyond the borders of the book despite a few flashes of genius that we always like.

If JK thought of taking some time off to re-evaluate the entire situation again after book 5 (also called the Bible of Harmony), why did she not take a time off to think of what would be a true Grand Finale for the best of all to believe it? I mean, she's JKR, the richest woman in the UK and one of the world's most appreciated authors over the last decade, so taking a time off shouldn't be a problem with her and I would have supported such move.



All the right ingredients (power, emotion, closeness, bindness, mutual understanding, devotion, etc.) were there and if JKR had the will to go all the way with H/Hr, no matter how huge this would have been, I also believe this relationship would have reached the well-deserved Promised Land of PURE BEAUTY with a sealing kiss (at least) as the icing on the cake.

I also think that in real life, Harry and Hermione would be married with many kids. It's unfortunate that the idea was too big and too overshadowing for some when it would represent the ideal of perfection we all thrive for as a human being. In any case, even the most neutral people looking at the interaction between Harry and Hermione would agree that they'd get married in our real world. And that's why we'll remain strong as a group of shippers looking for something to inspire our own lives.

The strangest coincidence is that while I read the two posts here, I was listening to a great song talking of a never-lost fight, and pride to preserve what we cherish at all costs, and to walk with our heads high in the darkest moments - something which applies very well to us.

Walk on! Walk on!
With hope in your heart
And you'll never walk alone
You'll Neeeeeever walk... alone!

Godrics Hollow was a treat to put it lightly. When JKR said that Harry would be visiting Godrics Hollow I always had this image in my mind as Hermione being there to comfort him. But I was convinced that it was my delusional mind acting and it was probably influenced by many fanfics that had Hermione comforting Harry at that time. When I actually read it in Deathly Hallows I was like "Omg I was right!" And JKR wrote that scene 10 million times better and more romantic than anything I could have possibly imagined,

You know, It's completely OT, but I was searching for songs of the OoTP soundtrack and casually found this oen from GoF. I Think it's really beautiful and kind of resembles a bit what we think of Harmony:

Magic Works

This one’s going out to all the lover’s out there
Hold each other tight and keep each other warm

Dance, your final dance
This is your final chance
To hold the one you love
You know, you’ve waited
Long enough

So believe, that magic works
Don’t be afraid of being hurt
Don’t let, this magic die
The answer's there
Oh, just look in her eyes

And make, your final move
Hmmm, don’t be scared
She wants you to
Yeah, it's hard
You must be brave
Don’t let this moment slip away

So believe, that magic works
Don’t be afraid, afraid of being hurt
No, don’t let this magic die
Ohh, the answer's there
Yeah, just look in her eyes

And don’t believe that magic can die,
No, no, no, this magic can't die

So dance, your final dance,
Cause this is, your final chance.


So sweet...I'd link the song itself for who wants to hear it, but I don't know how...

Didn't he already have that, from Krum and Rita in GOF? And Cho in OOTP? And finally, Ron in DH?

Harry's had the chance to reflect so many times, but I think the clincher was seeing Ron's face when he said, "You choose him." That's why Harry never did anything where Hermione was concerned, because Ron's friendship was so important to him.

Well when Ron walked out in DH he was really mad at Ron. It was more like, JKR didn't want to see the truth, ignored it, and basically said 'I'm putting Ron/Hermione together and your going to like it!'

Anyone can see there is more chemistry between Harry and Hermione in all seven Harry Potter books except maybe the last hundred pages of the 7th where Ron and Hermione kiss (because Ron learned to compliment from a book)

Yes, Harry ahd many wake up calls but he ingored them all. I think he might have thought that about Ron too.

Anyone but the most important person, that is JK herself.

Exactly, So it's not like Harry didn't see it. It's more like he was forced to ignore it by JKR or force being killed off. Even then he chose being killed off and she still brought him back to life!! lmao

Ugh.......I HATE that song...That's the song that the band sings at the end of the Yule Ball, right? Every time I hear that song it makes me think of R/Hr (and I think that was the idea) and I want to vomit. That's the song that plays during the Yule Brawl with all the *sexual tension*. BARF

Everyone sees the connection but them two! I think the ones that I liked personally were with Krum and Cho. I mean, remember in GoF where Krum kind of cornered Harry after the 2nd task, I think, and Krum was telling Harry how Hermione kept mentioning his name and all....yeah. Not even your sister can't shut up about you, Potter. Oh the brother/sisterly love.

And Cho! Ohmygod Hermione, splendid job. Then Cho bursting out all teary eyed that Hermione ruined everything for them and yada yada yaa. *evilgiggle*
Brightest witch of her age isn't she?

You know maybe H/Hr is like the evil/sweet couple. *idea!* That just made me think of the Darkside having cookies! ... wow.

Well, it starts when Hermione sits on the stairs crying, but then it moves inside the great hall and we see Neville and Ginny dancing together. I thought it was sweet, and if you think of the words, it kind of makes sense for Harry and Hermione too...I like to think of it this way, at least.

Yeah, it's different for everyone. I guess it's all the stuff about not being afraid, making your move, the answer's in her eyes, blah blah blah that screams, "Ron! tell her how you feel!" as well as the fact that my R/Hr shipping sister was punching me in the arm the whole time.

That ruined the song for me.

Ahh I wish I could just live in the moment of Godrics Hollow and forget all else that happend. I mean when I read that scene I was like squeeing so loud. What a pleasant shock/suprise! I just love the whole atmoshphere of the whole evening sky and the soft untouched snow. With christmas carols in the church and warm sof glows of light. It sounds so beautiful.

I had to stop reading for a while once cause I was soo hyped and I went around just walking. And I kept telling my dad "Omg Harry and Hermione do have such sweet scenes!" And my dad was like "ahah I knew they would!".

And yeah everything was so pretty and nice. And then the whole "closing eyes at touch" thing made my jaw drop.

everyone has been asking who wrote this so i must confess...it was ME!!! I'm so glad that it made so many people feel better about how the shipping turned out.

I really think that JKR felt that Harmony just didnt fit in her series even though she new it was best. The thing is a true author would allow herself to travel with her work. It was obvious that Harry and Hermione were trying to force their way out of this series whether they were supposed to or not and she should have gone with it as soon as she finished writing book 5. especially after writing the graveyard scene, how could she not realize that H/Hr were meant. It takes a bad author to completely overlook the amazing story that she set up. The jaw-dropping Emma-style romance mix-up, the true friendship=true love romance, and the love conquers all ending. How could she pass that up? Even if she ended up upsetting the OBHWF shippers i think that the ending would have rocked so hard that they would have forgiven all. And if she wrote it really well some might even accept Harmony.



And this ^? I mean seriously. this is JKR screaming at us that Harry and Hermione are soul mates!

If that's true, and i want to believe it is, they why oh why did JKR add that epilogue depicting their marriages? =(

Thats probably one of my favorite lines in the book. After such a long time of hardship and depression all it takes is something as simple as Hermione being herself to make him smile, its just too cute.

Well, probably the fact that I discovered the song on its own, and loved it, and only then I saw GOF again to see when it was played made me appreciate it. However, to me seemed more an hint to Neville to tell Ginny how he felt...after all the biggest part of the song was with them swaying to the music...and if I'm not mistaken till Ron is present the song doesn't start, it does when Hermione is alone on the stairs crying...but hey, does it have to mean she likes ron? No, she's simply upset because he ruined her perfect night! Or at least this is how I see it, even after DH.

Ah, yeah, so many sweet moments. If I hadn't known Harry would end with Ginny before starting the book, I'd believed we had a chance for at least half the book.

I love this part too. And they say they can't enjoy their time alone without Ron...this is proof if they want, they can, even in such a dire situation. It's just they are more focused on the task at hand.

I think it's more a matter of the same process that generated all the subtle H/Hr subtext in the earlier books; regardless of her conscious decision to pair up Ron and Hermione, subconsciously she wants to pair Harry and Hermione together. It's that or (and this second possibility gains a lot of likelihood after the poor writing of the last two books) JKR is such a lousy author that she can't convey the filial love between Harry and Hermione without lacing it with romantic undertones. Brothers and sisters are NOT that touchy-feely, not unless they're written by V.C. Andrews and grew up in an attic.

And my favorite moment was in the graveyard, when Hermione conjured the wreath of Christmas roses for Harry's parents.

Love your quote about the NOT touchy-feely brothers and sisters. That's what made me think (at least for 6 books) that Ron's feelings for Hermione were totally platonic - because HE behaved more like a brother to her than Harry did

As for why JKR didn't put H/Hr together, here's my theory, in brief, which I call Ur Romances R Pastede On Yay. IMO JKR put Harry on a Hero's Journey, which is an archetypal story. It took him 7 years to grow up enough emotionally to be able to deal with Voldemort in a way that would remove him from the Wizarding World. The 7 books and 7 years correspond to the 7 steps of alchemy, which has been discussed to death on several threads especially in the HBP discussion forums. Hermione Granger, a Virgo, is Hg, or mercury, to Harry's sulfur (he's a Leo, which is a Sun sign). Through a series of "chemical weddings", Sulfur and Mercury combine over and over in the course of the 7 steps to eventually make the Seeker perfect enough to become the Philosopher's Stone.

There's a school of literary alchemy in which the Sulfur male realizes that the Mercury female, who up to now has been his "soror mystica" or mystical sister, is actually the woman he loves and wants to marry. For whatever reason, JKR chose not to go this route. She had H/Hr go through a great many small chemical weddings, culminating in the final "chemical wedding" of them pretending to be a married couple in the Godric's Hollow scene. Yet in the epilogue we find them married to other people. This is what made the final pairings feel "pastede on" to me, the fact that JKR gave H/Hr the deepest and best developed relationship on the page, yet the ultimate romantic pairings didn't have the same emotional resonance. I think JKR tried to do too much and not enough with alchemy -- she tried to use Hermione both as Harry's anima and soror mystica AND as the white queen to Ron's red king in the "bickering couple". However, as the story is really HARRY's story, and not Ron's, JKR could have easily made Luna the white queen to Ron's red king -- and she even suggested as much by having blonde Luna sing "Weasley is my king" in OotP. I think that JKR tried to overlay alchemy onto a fairytale of which she had already decided the ending, namely the pairings in the epilogue. I think she chose OBHWF because it would (to her mind) give Harry a happy, uncomplicated ending, marrying his best friend's sister while his two best friends married each other. By keeping the romances as a "light" overlay on top of the alchemy, JKR ended up cheating many readers of the emotional connection they wanted Harry to have with his eventual mate. A month after finishing DH, I'm able to agree with whoever said (above) that the Harry Potter series was really the story of Harry vs. Voldemort, rather than the love story we Harmonians wanted it to be. Still, it's frustrating to me that JKR didn't see the Sulphur/Mercury connection all the way through.

Hope that made some sense:)

I realize this is getting away from the topic, but I wanted to say something following up on the last few comments (and many others elsewhere.) I am of the opinion that OBHWF was indeed JKR's intended destination from the beginning. (I think she was also variously surprised/bemused/annoyed when a substantial portion of her readership began to ship H/Hr.) I don't think she changed her mind or got pressured by fandom, nor am I fully convinced that there was a careful alchemical design that she either deviated from or, conversely, got locked into (although I do, mind you, find the alchemy discussions interesting.)

I would like to draw attention instead to the fact of her being a woman writer, as well as a new writer (when she began). In the first matter, I wonder if, as a female author, she felt the need to avoid being accused of wish fulfillment regarding her own created hero, as illustrated by the instance of Dorothy Sayers' Harriet Vane. I have read (can't remember where) literary criticism of Sayers for writing such an autobiographical character, inserting her into the Lord Peter Wimsey series, and having them marry. (Sayers, of course, gives Vane a far greater complexity than your average Mary Sue, but Sue-ish she remains. Don't remember the details, but I seem to recall Agatha Christie facing somewhat similar criticism.) JKR has, I believe, specifically mentioned Sayers at some point; we also know from interviews that JKR acknowledges her own identity, at least to some extent, with Hermione. So my speculation is this: that she may have decided at the outset that she could not have Hermione be the hero's love interest. For one thing she was just too much a stand-in for JKR herself, and for another (the new writer part) she may have felt it would be too hard for her to pull off anyway.

But, if this is at all true, here is the maddening twist (for Harmonians): this very decision ironically freed JKR to write Harry and Hermione as close as she wished or needed from a plot standpoint. Without sexual tension (how I hate that word in this context), freed in her own mind from any thought of an H/Hr romantic component, JKR could then use Hermione however she wished to pull off any given scene. Are we at a point where Harry needs a hug?--go to it, Hermione. A good talking to?--Hermione, get in there. Emotional rescue--Hermione, you're on. Etc., etc., etc. I mean, others have enumerated the huge number of incidents throughout the books of their closeness, the finishing of each others sentences, the hand-touching, the eyes meeting, the emotionally touching set-pieces like the wedding scene or the Godric's Hollow visit, ad infinitum.

Well, that's good as far as it goes, but the problem of course is that in the end you have a work of fiction in which Harry and Hermione's relationship has far more page time, events, significant moments, and just overall impact than any other, leaving, at least some of us scratching our heads and asking, Ginny? Why does Harry want her exactly? And, Hermione and Ron?--but she's put Harry first like a million times! She's so fixated on Harry, how could she not love him?

Okay, okay, so all love is not romantic. She's his "mother figure", you say? Or, they're like brother and sister? Err, okay, sure, whatever. Pardon me, Jo, for being left a bit nonplussed and underwhelmed.

Now about that Albus Severus name....

Yes, perfect! I completely agree. I've somehow considered JKR's idea of seeing herself as Hermione somewhat--well, from a shipper's point of view--of a bad omen for HHr. I didn't quite think it through, and I've always found the idea hard to express, but here you've filled in the holes perfectly, and explained it really well.

Yeah you did a fantastic job explaining that. JKR wrote herself into a tough spot. I mean especially in the case of R/Hr. You always put the one you love above all else right? I mean here is this girl who is so incredibly devoted to Harry, who puts him above all else, who'll go out of her way to help him in situations, who puts him above her own boyfriend, it just doesnt make sense in a OBHWF conclusion. It would however make sense if it was Ginny who did at least SOME of that stuff. Maybe even emotional rescue, but that never happend. It was always Hermione.

That's my objection to OBHWF - that Hermione has always put Harry first, to the point that she put him ahead of Ron, her boyfriend (so Harry thought at the time), when Ron chose to leave. Ron even said, YOU CHOOSE HIM. Yes, Ron was a prat at that moment, but despite being in love with Ron, she stayed with Harry. So while Hermione might want to, err, boff Ron, she would still do ANYTHING for Harry. It boggles the mind.

So we see JKR violating a cardinal rule of romance writing, namely that the best-developed male character hooks up with the best-developed female character. Harry is best developed because we're basically in his head 98% of the time. Hermione is best developed because she has the most page time of any of the female characters AND the most significant interactions with the protagonist (who is, as we keep saying, Harry rather than Ron). Of course now we can see, based on the fairly shallow "love" stories, that JKR never intended the romances to be important, which sort of violated the alchemical framework she had set up.

I honestly don't understand why JKR bothered to make Hermione a girl, except for him to have a "pure" relationship with a girl who loved him in every way except sexually. Bah

When I think of that, it's even harder to swallow than if Hermione showed far more attention towards Ron, which wasn't the case.

I also thought of that as well... we might say it is cliché to pair the hero with the heroine, but we cannot ever forget that the main reason why it is often done in literature is because both the hero and the heroine are the best developed characters, not to forget the amount of significant interacting moments and very tight closeness between them. It's so sad JKR destroyed the alchemical pattern she put up in the first place.

I don't believe in that idea of "pure relationship with a girl who love him in every way except sexually" because in real life, Hermione would have been Harry's lifelong companion and the mother of his children a long time ago already. Do we really need that ideal of purity? I don't think so and it's practically useless to preach it.

Whoa, what a theory. Well, I can see how she would want to avoid to be accused of fulfilling her own wish putting Hermione and Harry together, but then she should have been more careful with what she wrote, to not create the idea of them hooking up.

You summarized it perfectly in the boldened part.



Agreed.

one of many harmony moments I love is:
"..and I declared you bonded for life"
harmony simply soulmates, period

for me the sister line just one of the worst jokes ever
... but hey, I'm just delusional perhaps LOL

i was thinking the same thing, maybe she saw star wars too many times.
she must be a big fan of star wars and LOTR.

but takin the easy way out is not that JKR writing style.
thinki of the loopholes to make this book work at all, and the poor explanation when she introduced the memory charm and the overuse of accio spells.

JKR is the master of using the easy way out to make thing work.

That's one of my favorites ever as well. Talk about a marriage that happened and should have been repeated for Harry and Hermione any day after the war.

The sister line... Bull! Lame joke! Piece of no good and lousy idea to take the easy way out. A really POOR EFFORT to make it R/Hr without giving a shot for a real "confrontation" (even if it is a very tiny slight one) for Hermione's feelings.

Yeah, thta was really a nice moment. I mean, if Hermione loves ron, why turn and beam at Harry? But anyhow, for me the sister line is not a bad joke, just the result of Harry having to reassure Ron. We all know how much ron is important for Harry, we've seen it in GoF, now Ron's just come back, and Harry's going to do anything to keep him by his side. So he goes and knowing his friend likes Hermione and suspects him to do the same, he says "she's like a sister to me".

I hated that because I felt JKR shut all hope on H/H with that. She did her best to make them look platonic and it still didn't make the other pairings look better.

She did her best to make them look platonic but she failed if so much of us saw romantic love between them, don't you think? As for the other pairings...let me keep my mouth shut, it's better.

Because you'd go into uncensored mode, I guess.

I'd follow you in such dangerous grounds if you have to. That would make my day any day.

Well, I don't like bashing other ships, I feel it's not right. But honestly, H/G and Rhr being lifelong romances irks me, to say the least.

I don't try to behave smart ... bcoz I'm not smart or genius like Jo
but I really do think "sister" line is one of the worst joke to make R/Hr and H/G work
I just hope Jo should make harry said "hermione and I are only great friends, I don't see hermione in romantic way"
I felt it's make sense than "sister" line
bcoz harry and hermione NOT REAL bro/sis
so I think any of their love interests including ron and ginny (it's undeniable
possibility) always gonna feel harry/hermione "platonic" relationship as a big threat
sorry, but I felt hermione is more important than ron to harry
... well maybe I'm just delusional again LOL

If i'm going to be honest, I think Hermione's become more important to Harry than Ron is too. But this doesn't mean ron is important to Harry, so my reasoning about him trying to keep the redhead by his side no matter what still stands. But really, you can see how much she's important to him when he starts thinking his friends are talking behind his back of his leading abilities, and how much he fears he's letting Hermione down.

And let's not forget that in both HBP and DH, Harry thinks about Hermione first before his best mate and supposed love interest. This shows that even if he refuses to acknowledge it, Hermione easily became the most important person in Harry's life.

I think Jaime Vielle may have hit on the answer with his/her theory that JKR had set it up so that H/Hr could not happen for various reasons - i.e. avoiding the accusation of wish fulfillment, and being a new author and doubting her abililty to write it - and hence she was freed to write as many Harry and Hermione moments as necessary to fulfill other roles in the plot.

Another thing I want to add is that in her post-DH interview, JKR mentioned that Harry was one of the characters who got a reprieve in the process of writing DH. What this means is that Harry was meant to die all along, all the way from book 1 to some point in book 7. So JKR had meant for only Ron and Hermione to survive, and be together. For it to be H/Hr and then for Harry to die would have been just too sad, instead this way Ron and Hermione could support each other after Harry's death.

It was only in the last minute that she decided to let Harry live, and by this point it was too late to change to H/Hr, and since after all romance is a subplot, she thought it wasn't that big a deal. But her original plan for Harry to die would have been another thing preventing H/Hr from ever being possible, adding to the freedom that Jaime Vielle talked about.

Harry having to die might also explain the relatively little development of the H/G ship.


On another note I just have to say that DH further convinced me how much Ron and Hermione's characters are not suited to each other. Hermione, after her slight deviation in HBP, went back to being the greatest witch in the series, while Ron went back to his immature teenage self. The epilogue IMO really showed how much Hermione's character was brought down by marrying Ron. I think all this goes to support the idea that Harry and Hermione's characters started "wandering off" towards each other, but JKR had to force them to the orginal R/Hr and H/G plan.


Apart from the ships, however, I loved Deathly Hallows - IMO it was the best of the series, despite the R/Hr and H/G ending.

No, I think, it was Mr Weasley who got the reprieve. He was suppose to die in Book 5. The 2 characters that she suddenly choose to die in book 7 are Lupin and Tonks.

I don't think so. Yes, HHr getting together and then him dying would have been sad. Definitely. But it would have been beautiful, especially if he died to protect her, and Ron could have supported her even remaining her best friend.

As for changing to HHr at the last minute, it was not too late. She had fleshed a possible romance between them through all the books, she just needed to go back few pages, scratch Hermione and Ron kissing (if she had already written that when she decided to let Harry live) and then have Harrya nd Hermione kiss after the battle.

I agree with you on RHr, you know.

Oops, haha, you're right.

I agree. If someone can change something in the series at the last minute, that can only be JKR. If she wants H/Hr to happen, she can just go back a couple of pages and then alter a few scenes. She will have no problem in trying to create a romance between H/Hr since she has already done that in the previous five books by laying foundation to the depth of the relationship between Harry and Hermione. Or if not, she can just leave the whole book be, and then in the epilogue, she can have Harry and hermione end up together. But not the way she has written her crapilogue. If she has success in writing a beautiful relationship bet. Harry and Hermione in the previous books, I am sure she can with just a little epilogue.

If there was only one thing which was easiest to change, it would sure be that R/Hr kiss since setting Harry to live at the end would change a lot of setpoints for how the story would go on afterwards because all the foundations for a H/Hr romance were already there while a kiss would be the final seal to end it (the shipping war) once and for all with a great finish anyways.



I couldn't agree more than that. A few scratches there and there at the right places, and one single H/Hr kiss were the key to seal the deal after 7 years of build-up, and I'm also sure JKR would have been able to write a good and satisfying epilogue, anything better than that crapilogue any day.

Orig Topic Title: DH H/H moments, Hidden H/Hr


This has probably come up loads of times, but I just thought how the H/Hr scenes in DH are both when Harry and Hermione are in some way not themselves. For example, in the beautiful Godric's Hollow chapter, they are disguised as a muggle husband and wife and when they kiss it is as a hologram. I'm not quite sure what this adds up to, but it is interesting. Almost as if JKR is either consciously or subconsciously (and I'd go for the latter to be honest) writing H/Hr but not letting it happen out right.

It reminds me of Doctor Who where the Doctor, being traditionally asexual cannot have a relationship with his companions but that doesn't stop there being plenty of excuses for why he has to kiss Rose (and Martha). Possession, removal of time vortex and genetic transfer have all led to a romantic encounter between them in a way that the show cannot acknowledge overtly.

I wonder if JKR is doing something similar here. On the other hand, she really doesn't ship H/Hr. I imagine she would be horrified if she knew what she had written into the subtext.

Any thoughts?