Ah, thank you, Salamon. Good catch.

So I sincerely doubt that we would find Krum perusing the pages of Witch Weekly. Another good clue that Krum never read or heard those articles.

His suspicions of H/Hr have only to do with how much Hermione was talking about Harry.... and suspiciously not much about Ron, her supposed wuv, otherwise Krum might have suspected Ron.

hmmmmmm......

Cheers, Bama

I love this subtle hint for H/Hr as well. I also have to wonder if the reason Harry and Hermione were "unerved" had more to do with what Malfoy said about "hitting a nerve" rather than the doggy/Sirius comment. I mean Does JK want us to get the dog comment or the H/Hr moment that is very well hidden?

As always Ron is clueless.

I mean I am probably just being delusional again but I like to think that they were unerved because of what malfoy said in the beginning.

This is one of my favorite clues for Harry and Hermione. When I first read it my jaw dropped LOL

Well, that's all terribly interesting! I certainly did think Harmony thoughts when Malfoy said he'd touched a nerve, but I did get side-tracked by the Sirius comment and just completely let the faint idea of Harmony go.

I guess everyone in the Potter-verse is just the tiniest bit curious about the "trio's" current... relationship. It's only natural for people to wonder, "So who do you think's fancying who in that little trio?" or in the case of the Slytherins, they might be nastier about it. Besides, its already been suggested in the books that Hermione and Harry are a couple, and no one but Viktor and Cho ever really got an "answer" to the question.

I really hope that we will see this in the movie but I think they will change Hermione to Ginny so SuperGinny can have her big entrance.

Yeah I do too, but I'm not worried about them switching Ginny with Hermione. It has a much bigger chance of just not being played then Ginny playing the part. Where was Ginny in that scene anyways I haven't got my book handy right now.

I think that they thought they dogging meant Sirius, as well as JK keeping the moment hidden. Malfoy was using the term dogging as an insult and not as any relations to Sirius. My mom uses the term dogging alot now, so the first time I read the book I thought that he was refering Sirius but now I think that JK was using that term to throw us off.

Malfoy used the term "dogging" precisely because it carried many bad memories about Sirius and his death. Malfoy was being as spiteful as he could be in that scene, so when he told them he'd "hit a nerve" he said it in a way to milk it for all the spite it was worth, then he added the dogging insult, knowing that Harry would be sensitive about it. Not sure how Malfoy found out, but it's entirely likely that he got all his information through his Daddy-o, and Lucius got his information from their spies at the Ministry.

Now, how JKR used the wordplay is an entirely different story. She loves misdirection. Smoke and mirrors, anyone?

Umm..AdamantEve...I'm a bit confused here. This scene was before Sirius died. It was on the train after the Order had seen Harry off and Sirius was there in his animagus form, the black dog. That's why Harry and Hermione exchanged a look...they were concerned that Draco knew about Sirius being a dog and that he was there at the train station. That's what I've always thought about the scene. But Malfoy wouldn't have used the term "dogging" because it carried bad memories because Sirius wasn't dead yet.

Adamanteve,

Yes this was before Sirius had died when they were getting on the train to go to Hogwarts in OoTP.

At this time Sirius was alive and well.

Looking back, this was the first scene that was probably meant as a hint to Draco's Legilmency abilities. Hermione literally and figuritively flinched at Malfoy's intimation that Harry was second best to Ron, and the "I seem to have hit a nerve" was more than likely directed at the unforseen windfall of finding Hermione's weakness. The "dogging" comment could have easily have come from Draco doing the same thing, although I will guess that someone probably told Draco about Sirius' animagus. A few careful comments gave Malfoy plenty of ammunition to exploit some of H/Hr's vulnerabilities.

Either way, yes, Harry and Hermione were targeted. Ron was barely an afterthought, which is strange because you would think that Ron or Ginny would have bristled at Malfoy's comments, yet the scene is directed solely on Harry and Hermione's reactions. It's Hermione's reaction that Harry notices and it's Harry that Hermione turns to protect immediately to when Malfoy begins to attack. Again, strange because you would think Hermione would have turned to see how Ron reacted to Malfoy's comment if Ronnie Poo is her love interest or that Ginny The Mighty would have missed such a veiled threat since she supposedly cares about Sirius as much as the Trio and understands everything so well,

All in all, a very unusual scene that connects Harry and Hermione in a very intimate fashion. One of my favorites as well.

Draco knows legilemency? thats interesting. I never heard that hypothesis before.I understnad occlumency after the summer of fifth year.

-snoopy_pie

Yeah, that scene was really well done...but I must admit, I only ever saw that Harry and Hermione were unnerved by Malfoy hinting that he knew something about Sirius' animagus form, and that he'd possibly known that Sirius had been at King's Cross.

Because before this, Hermione expressed her worry that Sirius shouldn't have come, and afterward, H/Hr couldn't talk; other people were in the carriage, but there's an explanation of what Harry was thinking...''Hermione had been right...Sirius should not have come,'' and what if Lucius had noticed.

And Ron had been clueless, because, well, (bless him ) he often is about such things.

I do like that Harry and Hermione read each other so well, though. That scene is a great example of that.

Indeed

I am obviously smoking Wizard-grass.

I'm getting my books confused.

I think that Molly feels treatened by the possibility that Harry and Hermione can end up together. And a very good possibility too. I dearly hope that they will put in " but I don´t think that you are ugly" scene in the 5th movie and when Malfoy comes in the train. Ah and Cho, yes. Hermione comes first, she is the one he protects.

Elísabet x

combined with similar topic - gal-texter, 2009

This is going to be highly incomplete as of now. I would love for feedback from the community to help make this list, and any additions to the list (which are quite clearly inadequate), or to the context of the conversations would be appreciated.



Here's the count for H/Hr:

Cho - Girls aren't dumb, and neither is Cho. She may be an emotional rollercoaster, but she can see that Harry obviously cares a lot about darling Hermione, and vice versa.

Viktor - I like to think of him as an older and more experience Harry, "girl"-wise. Considered Harry a rival [for Hermione], something he didn't realize.

Mrs. Weasley - She obviously was around those two enough to pick up something, and Rita Skeeter's article didn't make her angry at the H/Hr pairing per se, but at Hermione's indignant treatment of Harry (by the whole supposed love triangle thing between Harry/Krum/Hermione).



Here's the count for R/Hr:

Harry - Our dear young Harry doesn't have barely any experience when it comes to girls or relationships. He's a very poor judge of relationships and non-platonic (romantic) love in general. And when he does compare a possible R/Hr pairing, it makes him uncomfortable!






:: Feel free to add, criticize, or toss an apple at my statements.

uhmm... I don't have the book with me right now but I do remember Mc Gonagall seeking Harry after Hermione was petrified in Chamber.

And also, don't forget about Rita Skeeter...

I agree with McGonagall and Rita Skeeter!

And hey, let's not forget about Ginny! I think it's quite clear in HBP that she at least considers Hermione as a rival for Harry's attentions.

But to be fair, under R/Hr it seems Lavender also see's something there. But then again she just seemed jealous all-around.

Ha! I love this game but really if we're going to count Mrs Weasley we'll have to count almost the entire Hogwarts student body... afterall they ALL believed that Harry and Hermione were dating, we'd at the very least have to count Colin Creavey who was the source quoted in Rita Skeeters article.

Wrong place, wrong time for Ron and Hermione in regards to Lavender. But yeah, she's jealous all around. Marking her territory, so to speak.

I do not think that there is any point of excluding it, because some people may say the same about Cho or Krum. In fact, I do not think that this makes any sense at all, because entire school knew that Krum and Hermione were dating (and it was also published by Rita in newspapers, so you can count entire wizarding world), as well as that Harry and Ginny were; and they had a lot of evidence, too. That could be counted as huge numbers "against". IMHO, the best thing going for Harry and Hermione is not bland numbers, but respect and friendship known only to them.

That and their faith in each other.

Trust is a very powerful thing in any relationship whether it be friendship or love.

Trust, faith, public consensus...

And six novels of covert foreshadowing involving alchemy, circular symbology, mutual assistance and complimentary skill sets. Why would Harry and Hermione fit so well if they were to be paired seperately? It doesn't make sense because it's not supposed to.

And don't forget that Ron is suspicious of Harry and Hermione several times, esp in HBP.

Even so, to be fair Lavender was suspicious of R/Hr just in the same way Cho, Krum and Ginny (IMO) were of H/Hr. It's unfair to have Cho, Krum, etc. on the list but not Lavender for R/Hr when she in fact had spotted the possibility.

She only spotted the possibility after the two had been seen by herself coming out of compromising situations (hospitatal scene, FF/sluggish memory scene). I think any female in her position with any intelligence at all could have saw something going 'on'. This isn't an attempt to put down the female sex, but I feel they have a good grasp of what is going on. Lavender certainly had no problem with R/Hr being friends until she started getting in the way, so to speak. Of course, what female wouldn't stand her ground versus a roommate who is 'attempting' to woo their boyfriend in front of their eyes.


In fact, the FF scene was enhanced by Harry's best friend [and his lack of, but she was] inebriation/inbebriated of Felix Felicis. The intoxication of lucky juice brought Hermione/Ron apart, but even though R/Hr is something they do not both desire. It is quite ironic when Hermione takes the FF and ends up hugging Harry instead of pining/or more over Ron, as would be expected of a lucky Hermione (or even more) finally catching her man. Even though she finally hugs/has Harry, she doesn't talk it so far as to cause drama - Hermione knows her limits.




Please forgive any grammar discrepancies that I may have. It has been a long night studying for exams.

Actually, it seemed as if Lavender had a problem with Hermione's closeness to Ron throughout the novel, like when Ron was walking with Hermione and Luna (and Harry), and Lavender was clearly jealous because Ron was with 'her'. Now it could've been Luna she was talking about, but I think it makes much more sense for her to be talking of Hermione. Then in the Hermione Helping chapter Lavender was described as grumpy looking after Hermione ran toward Ron telling him he did brilliantly. So I do think there were several instances throughout HBP that help prove Lavender was suspicious of the possibility of R/Hr, and not just because of the dormitory incident. Again, it reminds me of Cho being jealous of H/Hr steadily throughout the novel. So I personally don't find it fair to include one and not the other.

If we're gonna be fair, we have to actually count correctly. There is no denying that Lavender had a problem with R/Hr's relationship since even before she and Ron dated.



If anything, Lavender should have been happy and relieved about Ron's victory after feeling so nervous for him. And there would be no logical explanation for JK to show Harry's observation of a happy Hermione directly followed by his observation of a grumpy Lavender if they had no correlation to one another.

I don't really play the numbers game, to tell you the truth. It isn't such a valid argument, and one that I always had a problem battling in debates. Sure, the number of people suspecting H/Hr in the books is much larger than those who suspect R/Hr, but those are people who only see the trio from afar, and don't really have credible observations. We've seen many times how the Hogwarts population is mistaken about what goes on within the trio. In real life, we readers get to see the entire trio's relationship very well, yet we H/Hrs are outnumbered by R/Hrs.

Don't play with numbers, it's a dangerous game. One could almost look at it as hypocrisy (I don't, but I'm just saying, it could be looked at as that).

Besides, numbers aren't what make H/Hr special. It's their relationship.

There's a saying, "What I tell you three times is true." We've had three people come out with their suspicions about Harry and Hermione in words: Rita, Krum, and Cho. If she just wanted to put the notion to rest, JKR wouldn't need to repeat it.

Who, other than Harry, has put into words (thoughts, in his case) that they think there's something between Ron and Hermione?

Jem

I also do not think that Mrs. Weasley and McGonnagal count. To me, those are just desperate points. Mrs. Weasley is a gossipy lady, who has no idea about how the trio are at school. Hermione had never even been to her house for Merlin's sake until that summer, and she was hardly ever around H/Hr since she did not go to the Quidditch Cup. In PoA, she didn't see Harry around Hermione either. Maybe for like an hour, (not even, I don't think she saw them together at all). She just read the magazine, took it as fact, and acted like an overprotective mother. I don't think it's fair to say she "saw" anything.

And McGonnagal isn't going to know anything, either. Not to mention the fact that she asked Ron to come to the hospital wing about a millisecond after she did Harry. The reason she fetched for Harry was because he was under suspicion.

And Rita too. She's not a trustworthy character. She wanted to trash Hermione and get a story at the same time. Why in the world would she write a story about Ron and Hermione? Who is Ron Weasley to her readers? He's nobody. The only way to trash Hermione is to make something about the article well-known. So she dragged Harry in. Why not? Hermione hangs around him all the time, it would seem like the obvious choice. She would have no credible reason to write about two unknown teenagers. Her magazine wasn't a little gossip column for Hogwarts; it was for the whole wizarding world.

I agree with you completely. As obvious as it is, the only people I seriously thought considered H/Hr were Cho and Krum. Krum didn't suspect H/Hr because of the articles, he suspected it, because Hermione kept talking on and on about Harry. He honestly thought something was going on.

Cho the same. After Harry's two statements (meeting hermione, praising her jinxing abilities) Cho couldn't take it anymore. Her bitterness went up the wall because, once again, she honestly thought something was going on.

Interesting that both of Harry and Hermione's love interests thought that H/Hr had something there.

Lavender, Harry, Ron, Hermione. Rowling. As I said, counting does us no good whatsoever. Hermione and Krum? Entire wizarding world. Harry and Ginny? Entire school. Same for Harry and Cho. Potter stinks? At least half of the school. Potter is mad? All readers of the Prophet. Hermione makes love potions? Dozens if not hundreds of quite grown people. Are we to break them all in group of threes and claim that every three makes it truth?

Let us not forget about the most powerful wizard of all time - DUMBLEDORE.

In OoTP, when Harry was holed up in his room at Grimmauld place, Dumbledore confided in Hermione what had happened to Mr.Weasley. BUT, Hermione had obviously also been told about Harry's current mood and situation (through Phineas telling DD, no doubt) and was sent for Harry. Dumbledore saw that Hemione was important enough to get through to Harry and help him with what he was going through.

Exactly my point, only I didn't have the specific excerpt you posted. I don't see how Cho can "count" for H/Hr when she was showing the same kind of jealousy as Lavender did for R/Hr. It's just biased and unfair. Besides, now that I think about it McGonagall and Mrs. Weasley shouldn't "count" for H/Hr either. This whole numbers game is unreliable and proves almost nothing.

But was it because Ron ignored her completely at that time? Ron is shown to be pleased with himself and grins at the whole team as well as Hermione . Its not any exclusive smile directed at Hermione, then he goes and boasts to anyone who is listening nearby. I would stilll say Lavendar had a misunderstanding and situations of wrong place , wrong time.



Also since we counted Rita, cho, krum, Molly
I think we should count another source.
Draco Malfoy, I think JKR said that Draco was a very observeant fellow and he knew how to spot out weaknesses or sore points in people.
This is the scene from OoTP when they are in the train:

The quote was directed at Harry , and Malfoy compared him to being second best to Ron , whom we all know that Hermione has a very low opinion about. To say that Harry is second best to the likes of Ron seems to touch a nerve in her.

No, it wasn't because she was being ignored. Harry observed Lavender from afar, and his observation began as Hermione ran towards Ron, meaning that Lavender had a problem with just her action of approaching him.

The whole point of that little tidbit was to show that Lavender was grumpy over Hermione and Ron. Was it a misunderstanding? Maybe. But wasn't Harry leaving Cho to meet Hermione on Valentine's Day a misunderstanding too? Yes, it was. The entire Cho feeling she had reason to be jealous of Hermione was a complete misunderstanding just like the Hermione/Ron/Lavender situation. So you can't possibly "count" Cho spotting the possibility of H/Hr and not count Lavender spotting R/Hr. That's completely biased.

And I don't think Malfoy should "count" either, because how does that prove he saw H/Hr on a romantic level? IMO he was merely trying to insult them not specifically hint at that H/Hr were going to get together. I really don't think he cared.

Since when does Hermione have a low opinion of Ron? Please, cite the text, because this is new to me. She and Ron have disagreements, but that's due to differences in personalities. Me and my friend are like Hermione and Ron (except, there's no "sexual tension"--we're both girls); we constantly disagree on things and we get into annoying arguments too. Doesn't mean I have a low opinion of her.

Also, how does that scene indicate anything about Malfoy? Like you said, the comment was directed at Harry, but how would he know how Hermione was going to react? I doubt he did it to annoy her.

I don't think Malfoy should count, either. The idea that he's walking around, wondering--even in a disdainful manner--if Potter and Granger are dating, sounds kinda silly. He wouldn't waste his time. He'll mention it as a spur of the moment taunt, just because Hermione would be the easiest target and not because he'd been thinking about it long in advance.

If we really look at it, there aren't that many characters in the books that have seriously suggested suspicion towards either couple.

H/Hr: Cho, Krum

R/Hr: Harry, Lavender, Ron, Hermione (Real life, Rowling)

This is a game we Harmonians should not play.

Not really a "low opinion" for my first example, but it shows how little Ron adds up to Hermione: In OotP, during the prefect badge scene - she is almost disheartened by Ron getting the badge, and is unable to articulate why he even got it in the first place: "Ron's done loads of... he's really...". She couldn't even tell Ron what he'd done to deserve prefect status, and yet she totally flips her lid upon seeing Harry with the badge.

Looks like Hermione is biased too.

HBP:

"Hermione spared him [Ron] one look of disdain before turning back to Harry."

Such a fitting line. Hermione giving her full attention to only Harry - Hermione in true form.

'"Coward," said Hermione, [to Ron]'

Here she flatly insults his bravado. She does it again when she laughs at Ginny's joke about tattoos.


Those quotes are from times when they aren't in the middle of a bickering contest. With how often they fight, I'm sure Hermione has at least mentally placed Harry on a higher pedestal than Ron. This is only conjecture, but logically it would make sense.



Honestly, I would feel wronged if JKR believes that those two belong together in anyway. Since she has some semblance of intelligence in her writing, I'm going to assume she was only using her pro-R/Hr interviews as a smokescreen for Book 7.

Ron and Hermione don't like each other [especially not in that way.]

Harry is biased towards a R/Hr pairing, and he picks up things that lead towards said pairing (like R/Lav/Hr triangle jealousy fighting). Lavender may have been jealous, but nobody else was the wiser except for Harry (since he is naturally skewed that way).

She didn't seem disheartened, she just seemed embarrassed about getting the wrong conclusion. She was right in her expectation of thinking Harry would get it (and let's not single her out--everyone thought he would get it, even Ron's own brothers), because as we later found out, Harry would've gotten the badge, had Dumbledore not thought that he already had too much on his plate.



Well, that's just a silly moment. Ron was being immature, and Hermione had more important things to say.

'

That's a doctored quote. The real quote is:



She was kidding and she was playing around. We've all done it with our own friends. There is a reason as to why JK added those last couple of words, and that's to show the reader that she wasn't saying those words seriously. She has a sense of humor.

And it also doesn't help our cause that during the moment she said that quote, she was extremely happy about the R/L breakup.




I don't think Hermione thinks Harry is a more valuable or better person than Ron. I just think she takes him more seriously and thinks of him as more of an adult than she does Ron. She thinks Harry is more mature, but she doesn't think he's better.

Not to mention the fact that when it comes to talking to other people, Hermione has proven, at least once, to talk more about Harry than she does about Ron.

It's obvious from the very beginning, actually, that she thinks Ron is a retard. First words she speaks to Ron is to point out his stupidity:

“I heard your spell. It’s not very good, is it?"

And it just keeps getting worse.

"It's Wingardium Leviosa. Not Wingardium Levi-yoh-SAH."
"... emotional range of a teaspoon."
There's one where she said "What. An. Idiot." But I couldn't recall who she said this too. Might have been Ron. Might have just been in the movies. All I know is that it's in PS (I think).

i think we should just stop now. theres too many characters against us and we only have two on our team.

parvati also saw R/Hr. wasn't she "astonished" (or was it "shocked"?) when she found out that Hermione was going to the ball with someone other than Ron in GoF? I cant remember the quote, but it was something like that.

Too right. Let's stick to Krum and Cho. Period.

Lol. Hey, if we were always concerned about the "majority" we wouldn't be in this ship.

Exactly. we're outnumbered so why would we of all people care about numbers really?

I’m thinking quality not quantity is the key here. If Krum and Cho were jealous, then that’s enough for me. They were both romantically interested in H/Hr and more emotionally invested so they would be more sensitive to hearing their object of desire talk about another boy all the time or putting their best friend’s needs first. I also put Molly Weasley in this category – she obviously wants OBHWF and is invested in this idea so she treated Hermione coolly when she thought she was with Harry.

As for the general Hogwarts population (Malfoy, Parvati etc), I see them as reflections of the readers – different people with different preferences on shipping

Down With Ginny! - Another example of Hermione's 'low' opinion of Ron is after the Grawp scene where we find out that Ron was the MVP of the match. Hermione was bewildered and unbelieving that he could do so well.

I've always figured it this way about Rita. Even if her intentions were less than honorable, she was still a journalist above all else. And as such, she had learned from long experience to notice things the rest of us usually don't -- even as Cho and Viktor, both Seekers, had (and him on Bulgaria's national Quidditch team, no less!). So isn't it possible that, in spite of herself, she actually did see something between Harry and Hermione?