Well, we actually do tend to do that--practically the first substantial statement in any Pumpkin Pie analysis of HBP is "Rowling always tries to trick us, so we need to look past the obvious answer". But I tend to think that's the right way to approach Harry Potter anyway, so I don't see that as a Bad Thing. ;^)

Still, if you like the obvious answer, I'd bet being told it's wrong because it's too obvious would be infuriating...

(I suspect some people, even in the OBHWF camp, realize this. Have you ever read the Psychic Serpent series? It was written before OOTP. HIGHLIGHT FOR SPOILERS: The author knew that Rowling tends to trick her readers--so the series starts H/Hr and D/G, but Harry gradually learns it's Ginny he truly wants, Ginny realizes Harry's much better for her than Draco, and Hermione works out that it's really Ron who's her hero. Right approach, wrong pairings. Great piece of fic, though--I think I skipped sleeping half the nights I was reading it, and I didn't get a whole lot done during the days either.)

You are quite mistaken if you think I am not an H/Hr shipper. In fact, I've got a 100,000 word story (sadly not finished, as yet) on Portkey to prove it. It's the only HP fanfic I've ever written. Why would I waste all that time and effort writing a story to support a ship I don't believe in?

I'm sorry that my post upset you, but I must say you have done a fine job illustrating the kind of attitude that puts people off this ship (or any other ship, for that matter) in the first place. The "jump first, think later" attitude that substitutes hotheadedness for actual discussion. Yes, I am quite aware that other groups have their own badly behaved element (as I said in my previous post, had you bothered to read it carefully) - but that is nothing to do with us. We can do nothing about their behaviour, but we may do something about our own.

It's not good enough to support a fellow shipmate no matter what, even if they are in the wrong. Neville knows this well enough! If I see an H/Hr supporter baiting a person from another ship, and that person not responding, I will have sympathy and respect for the latter and not the former, regardless of whom I happen to agree with. Similarly, if non-H/Hr shippers see a Harmonian unfairly attacked and yet still behaving decently, their good opinion will lie with us and not the person doing the attacking, even if they don't agree with our ship. This is where the extremists of all ships are going wrong - they're so bent on proving themselves right that they'll steamroll anyone in their way to do so. It's not good enough, and it is leading to tremendous amounts of bad feeling all around.

It may surprise you to know that I have visited Mugglenet, and I have seen the H/Hr ship being insulted by some Herons (certainly not them all). I've even seen (perhaps you have not, or are choosing to ignore it) Herons defend H/Hr shippers when some of their shipmates have been insultingly rude towards them. No doubt many of them are as disgusted by this whole squabble as I am. However, I've also spent a large amount of time on this site, and it's silly to say that we don't have our own element who doesn't behave equally as badly. And you know the stupid thing? While our idiots are saying "we're only defending ourselves against the mean and nasty Herons/Chocolateers/ etc", THEIR idiots are saying "We're only defending ourselves against those nasty Harmonians. They started it!"

It's infantile. On both sides. And it's my considered opinion that it is this more than anything that leads to the bad feeling between ships. It also leads to victimhood - "everybody hates us, we're so persecuted". What a load of rubbish. If people do hate us, the likely reason is because irrational posts like yours have caught their attention in such numbers that they make us all look bad. I support H/Hr, but I don't appreciate whiny, self-pitying, rude people of any stripe - and if this is the impression that we are giving to others, then we need to do something to change the ambassadors that we are sending out.

Dollars to doughnuts, in the forums of an R/Hr or H/G forum somewhere, some reasonable person is saying the exact same thing to their shipmates, trying to get them to behave in a civilised fashion towards other ships. I can only hope that they are having better luck.

As I said before, I truly believe that most shippers - of whatever stripe - are decent people who are happy to live and let live. I don't like the idea of R/Hr, but I certainly wouldn't insult any of their shippers, or presume another Harmonian is lying if she were to dare to stand up for them by saying that we have brought some of the blame upon ourselves.

Before I finish this little rant, I would like to say a big thank-you to JBaker for standing up for me a few posts above. In the short time I have been debating with this poster, they have shown themselves to be thoughtful, intelligent, and extremely polite even to those that disagree with them. If JBaker were the standard of all Harmonians, perhaps we would have a better reputation.

In short, remove the beam from thine own eye, and all that.



I don't know. I've come across some pretty twisted Dobby/Gollum. I think that could be worse.

Couldn't agree more, I have only been actually attacked once for my theories re Harry Potter shipping and it was on Portkey by a fellow H/Hr shipper who basically thought I was an idiot and felt obliged to let me know in the meanest way possible. I only ever post on Portkey, so that is why I've only been attacked once and it was here but still... The person was so mean to me I honestly thought they must be a heron or choco! Imagine my surprise when I discovered differently.



Dobby/Gollum??? OMG...

Also just to let you know I think I must have posted at the same time as Cookie Monster cause I didn't see that post till now... I wouldn't have made such a flippant comment if I had seen it.

It's appalling that you have been accused of lying about being a H/Hr shipper just cause you said there is a rude fringe element to the Harmony ship aswell. If anything Cookie Monster has just proven you right that some of the blame has been brought on by ourselves.

I guess the reason why we're the most hated ship is because the Herons feel we have no concrete evidence to back up that H/Hr are anything but platonic. And all of the wonderfull H/Hr moments that we love are just as they appear in the book with no hints that their relationship could lead to a romantic one. This however is false after the many essays I've read here and on other sites that really break down the H/Hr dynamic with other symbolism that proves why H/Hr they could become a romantic partnership. They already work together beautifully as a duo,we've seen this countless times in the odd number books. And I'm sure Book 7 will be no exception. So to berate us because of the evidence we've found as an argument for Harmony has been very hurtful to us. They feel it would be to cliche and boring if the hero/heroine got together at the end of the series. So they think the R/Hr is a much more interesting paring because their arguments are only a smokescreen because they really love eachother? Last time I checked anybody that has fought the way R/Hr has done,is not what I'd call a long-term relationship,but I could be wrong. It's one thing for them to form their own opinion about their ship.But it's wrong to tell others who do not agree with them,that they have no proof or right to belive in the H/Hr ship.

Right you are jane99 No one has to be mean and horrible to anyone...and it's on all sides...And it just goes around and around with the same agruments, it's he said she said crap that just make everyone sound like an idiot.



LOL...that's got to be one confusing ship! LOL....all the third person talk and three separate personalities to deal with! Good Lord! HAHA

After all, we are non canon, so why hound us? Go after Snape/Hermione or some other fanon ship.



I know; we can't even get a word in edgewise on opposition forums and somehow we're the aggressors?



How could anybody forget the fine folk at HMS_STFU, and of course, the aptly named Harmony_Wank.



Exactly; we have members at opposition sites, but they don't go there to troll. They go there to have a intelligent debate.



Exactly. The books are about two things; the power of love and the choices we make. Why should the romance be insignificant and seem like it was ripped out of Dawson's Creek?



I agree. It's time we showed that Harmonians (and Pumpkin Piers) are not pushovers. Coming over here and trying to debate us does no good. We've closed the debating forum, take the hint.



Actually, since Rowling has to tie up loose ends after the halfway point, the way OotP and HBP are written shows a H/Hr progression.



Thank you very much .



You're not alone. There was a wholesale boycott of the site by H/Hrs around the beginning of last year.



Too true. Even on neutral sites, we have trouble voicing our opinion.



This ought to be interesting to watch; from a very safe distance, that is.



H/Hr is the only ship that takes shipping seriously. I've wondered why they thought shipping was an unimportant point to the story (hello, why is it even there if it doesn't have a purpose) until I realized that they simply don't care as much.



We find it funny that we're actually considered delusional. I mean, let's face it, of all the wierd ships in the fandom and we get title of delusional. How ironic is that?



I agree. I was never much for brainless fansqueeing.



Exactly. Why work any harder when you've already got the answer? Too bad they don't have it.



I highly dount it could come off without many character inconsistencies.



Well she is a member of our ship, just not an old enough in terms of fandom to have dealt with bashing.



The rude element of this ship consists of the best debatrs we have. They're not crusty because they have an ax to grind, but because they have to deal with cheap tactics like the one cookiemonster just mentioned.



I agree. Behaving decently means nothing if the opposition isn't willing to meet you halfway. It is interesting that cookiemonster talks about being bashed on a topic about whether or not Sanpe is good or evil because that happened to one of our essayists, Hawk92.



At this point, I really don't care who started it (although I'm quite sure it's them). I just want some peace and quiet. I only get snarky when I have to deal with Mo'Rons.



Why should we not defend ourselves against attack?








Do these people realize they're relying on the "bickering couples" cliche? Probably not . The smokescreen argument is just another desperate attempt to make up scenes where there are none.



They shouldn't just dismiss evidence because they don't agree with it.

I just realized how much I have to respond to. I'll come back and finish this.

Edit: Finished replying to two posts, yay!

Got a little further...

Wow! Let me clear my head before I respond.



First I want to apologize to you Jane for my behavior. I would be glad to read your fanfic if you would tell me which one it is.

I am kind of a hothead. My parents tell me this all the time and sometimes I say something / post something without thinking.



I'm sorry that I jumped down your throat. I am one person that can admit when I have made a mistake and I have made a mistake.

You are right when you say that everyone on both sides acts this way, and as you can see, and as my post has proven, I guess I tend to act this way too.

I guess I got upset when you made your throw yourself in a sewer comment. Yes everyone is responsible for their own behavior, and I'm taking responsibilty for mine, but it can be comments like the sewer comment that can upset people.

I want you to know that I did read your post, and I did notice that you did mention other ships in your post. Again I apologize, and since I have a hot head, I try not to post very often, especially in controversial topics such as this one. Due to my "jump before I look" attitude I tend to lurk at forums more often and let good debaters like JBaker, Brown, and HouseElf represent our ship.



And here you expressed the main problem in fandom. The fact that people don't call their shipmates on their rude comments. First, I also have sympathy for my shipmates that are trampled upon, and I do appreciate that this ship has people on such as JBaker that are wiling to stand up for those that are absent or don't know how to respond. (And when I say stand up, I don't mean getting snarky with a person, I mean an intelligent debate.)

People need to take responsiblity for their actions and I think that we forget that their is an actual person on another computer reading comments. I'm sorry that I forget this important aspect of talking on the internet.



Oh, I know that their are several Herons getting sick of the BS going on in fandom right now. In fact I see some come to this site that are truly interested in our thoughts and feelings.

The main problem with fandom right now all dates back to the HBP interview with JK Rowling. Fandom began to go crazy when a neutral interview began to take sides.

I think that people need to read their comments carefully before posting them. Make comments about the ship, but leave people's sanity out of it. In fact it is because of this very reason that several shippers have left fandom all together.

I think that people should be able to defend themselves, but they must remember not to let it get personal, and I did. And for that I apologize.



I don't post very often because of my "jump first think later" attitude. I also don't like whiny, self-pitying, rude people either. I also think that both sides have their wackos, but I have seen some people with thoughtful posts that are attacked without cause, like I seem to have done to you.

Most H/hr shippers that I know tend to stay away from sites like mugglenet because they don't want to get their blood pressures up and stick to sites like portkey because they can have intelligent conversations. I think that H/Hr shippers that still think H/Hr will happen that post their opinions on Mugglenet are asking for it. Their post will probably end up on the Wall of Shame.



Believe it our not, I have paid attention to your post and I will try to think before I post.



I'm sorry that I accused you of lying. I don't like being insulted and I guess I should follow the golden rule of "Treat others the way you want to be treated." I do agree that we have brought some of the blame upon ourselves. Sometimes it was intentional and sometimes it was not.

Right after the book came out I saw shippers post rants, and then they would be copied and pasted and mocked. Keep in mind these were heat of the moment posts that were meant for friends, but I guess nothing is secret on the internet.



I would also like to thank JBaker for standing up for a fellow HP fan and calling me on my BS. And you are right when you say that JBaker is a good H/Hr shipper standard that we should strive for.

cookiemonster
who can admit when she has been wacko.


Peace and have a beer on me.

PS: Tell me which story is your so I can read it. I would look forward to reading your HP story.

PS#2: Jane I deleted my other post. I was out of line and I apologize.

Hi cookiemonster,

Apology accepted, unreservedly. You're right in that we often find it easier to insult people over the net. I wonder why that is? I'm sure that everyone here (including myself) has made silly comments in the heat of the moment that they wish they could take back once they calm down a bit. I certainly have! Not everyone, however, has the gumption to apologise, like you did. That takes a lot, and I really respect you for being able to do it. Having had to do it myself on occasion, I know it's hard!

If I could just explain the sewer comment - it was meant to illustrate those people who think that by excusing their behaviour by blaming it on others, that they are blameless and above the filth that other people throw around. When really, they're right down there slinging muck with the best of them. It wasn't meant to be a "go throw yourselves off a bridge, you don't deserve to live" comment, but a "if you're going to play in the dirt, don't try pretending you're not dirty" comment. If you misunderstood it, I probably wasn't clear enough in what I was trying to say. I'll try and explain myself better in future.

So apology accepted, and issue forgotten. Want to start over?

Oh, and my story is "Harry Potter and the Eye of the Storm" - you should be able to find it by searching the fiction part of this site. It's H/Hr, of course, and goes on from OOTP (in my world, HBP does not exist). I should warn you that it is unfinished as yet, so you may not want to read it. I took a break from it several months ago, which is no doubt horribly annoying to anyone who was kind enough to read it, but am getting back into it now, and hope to post the next chapter this weekend. If you do choose to look at it, I really hope you like it, but I should warn you not to expect miracles! It's nowhere near brilliant, but have done my best, such as it is.

EDIT: Let me see if I can do this right (computers hate me, so it may not work - the link to my story is below). Please don't feel obliged to read it! You really don't have to.

http://fanfiction.portkey.org/story/3121

Hey, success! It works!

Okay would it be horribly inappropriate of me to say how much you guys have just made my day I feel like I should just shut up and let you have your moment...but I've got to say that in 100% seriousness and I think it goes without saying, though I’m going to say it anyways...you both did the ship proud! You're right jane99 when you say that we aren't the most hated ship....How could anyone hate us when you guys just showed how awesome everyone on this site truly is!...Sorry but I couldn't hold it in okay...I'm done now...Rock on with the discussion!

I totally agree with you! I have read many different hermione/pairs and I have to say ron/hermione has always been my least favorite. I too, was under the impression that hermione and ron would most likely end up together. Everyone that I talked to about the harry potter books thought they would end up together as well. It wasn't until I read an essay by Penny Linsenmayer about the evolving relationship of h/hr that I started to see things in a different light from everyone else. H/hr just makes so much sense to me and I can't believe that I never saw it before. I had to read all the books again to read between the lines and see how compatible h/hr really are.
I truely believe that jkr has written a wonderful romance, if it was intentional or not, and hopefully she will not disappoint us.

You're correct, I just wanted to leave the quote.. sort of the same as the person who posted it .

I do post on predominately Heron/Choco forums sometimes. I ignore the "red flags"! But, rather than look at it as my being a "glutton for punishment" (for going to these forums in the first place), I see it as a challenge to post on those sites. I insist on voicing Harmony. I get pretty stubborn about it too. I do stand my ground against the overwhelming odds! Sometimes a Heron and/or Choco will say to me, "Oh, well, when you put it that way....". Not that any of them have converted to OUR side. But then, I am not trying to convert anybody!

I believe that the main reason so many non-H/Hr shippers hate H/Hr is because they believe that we Harmonians are digging our heels in and deluding ourselves. That we just can't come to terms with the fact that JKR said it would be R/Hr. They use the interview by Emerson and Melissa as their main evidence that H/Hr will never happen. They say that JKR said, in this interview, that R/Hr will be a couple, and they just assume that Ginny and Harry will get back together. They just don't see H/Hr as anything but being just friends. They don't interpret the H/Hr moments as we do. We drive them completely bonkers with our theories and hopes that JKR will make it H/Hr in the end. Sometimes I wonder just how strong their faith in their ships would be if this interview never took place?

We are definetly the most hated ship in fandom. Over on another forum i am having major issues with an HG shipper and it is doing my box in. Lord have mercy, why can't we all just live and let live? The drama is getting really old.

Good on you Cookie Monster for being mature enough to apologise! Reading your post has made my day, it's not often that you will see such a thoughtful and heartfelt apology!

Well now, this topic did a nice 360, or rather a 180 with the anger then a second 180 with the cool mellowness.

Yea for us!

im Nobody

Well I'm glad this little misunderstanding has been sorted out.
Thanks for the praise but I must admit that I too have fallen into the trap of making assumptions about others and have thrown my weight around as well. It happens from time to time for most people. Sad but unfortunately true.


Anyway, back on topic.

We are hated because we see things that others don't. Because this isn't just about where the series is heading, but IMO is also about the fundamental way in which we see love presented (either through experiences or through what we've witnessed), it means a challenge on our beliefs. As such, people tend to hold their ground any differences of opinion may be seen as attacks upon their beliefs. As such, a response of equal aggression if you will, is delivered.

What I am saying basically is that it has to do with beliefs of what love actually is, how it is manifested. Because it's a belief, people stand their ground and when a counter argument comes up, people get defensive and sometimes outright aggressive in defense.

Hmm, I realise I'm fairly new to PK as a poster, but I've been an H/Hr shipper for a long time. So here's my two cents.

Firstly, I don't think we're "the most hated 'ship". No sir, not true. We get an awful lot of stick for it, true, but hate is a strong word. I've seen a lot of the H/Hr bashing on Mugglenet, you'd have to be blind and living under a rock (a rock that, I might add, has no stable power supply) to miss it. And yes, some of it is quite nasty, and quite personal, but then so are a lot of the replies in this thread.

I've personally had no trouble getting on with R/Hr and H/G 'shippers as a whole. I've had long, enjoyable discussions with a large number of them. Anyone, as long as you can at least allow them their opinion and try to see things from their perspective, can be talked to civilly. There are of course, the psychopaths, but I think we have our fair share of one-sided minds here as well.

So, hated? No. Derided? Absolutely. Insulted? Definitely. But we need to get past this "Oh my god, I'm being persecuted!" mindset and just revel in the fact that we don't particularly need a uniting factor (in this case, standing up against aggression) to be (in my opinion) the strongest 'ship community. If people want to get personal about us *cough*Emerson*cough*, then we should just laugh it off, read a chapter of YoR, have a chat with each other and forget about it. If you think we truly are hated, then that's the best way of fighting back.

Of course, this logic doesn't apply to certain arguments, and you will always have fanatics who refuse to see any other point of view, but they're just children. You don't necessarily need to agree with a viewpoint to see where it's coming from - I personally don't agree in the slightest with R/Hr and H/G, but I can understand their (in my opinion slightly weak) arguments.

In my view, if we're actually hated then we need to take a look at ourselves as well, not just closet ourselves away from the wider HP community. Why not develop further our reputation for being friendly, open and decent shippers? Ignore the paladins of the other ships who see us, for some reason, as an affront to their existence. In the words of a wise old wizard, "Personally, I've never had much time for heroes."

So yeah, after a bit of rambling, my point is Harmony is the way forward, but not everyone agrees. But that's cool, right? Because it's what *we* enjoy, and we don't particularly need gratification from Herons or Chocos.

Guess what? I started reading the Psychic Serpent series. I got mid-way through the second series and gave up on it because (1) it was too convoluted (my meager Harmonian brain simply couldn't handle the unremitting barrage of (IMO) unnecessary details), and (2) HIGHLIGHT FOR SPOILERS: the switch from H/Hr to H/G and R/Hr made me feel conned not tricked

It's very well-written, if you enjoy something that's as dense as peanut butter with oatmeal mixed in. Eventually it just stuck to the roof of my brain too much

I think that H/Hr is the most hated because even though R/Hr is the so-called sailing ship, H/Hr is still the dominating, and more popular ship.

They don't want to admit that r\hr is the most shallow ship ever. I couldn't believe it when one r\hr shipper stooped so low to say the they loved each other (still shuddering). One said that it was, get this, cute! That it would be much more exciting to read r\hr than h\hr and that if harry and hermione do get married, it would be a boring marriage. (my friend said all this. thank God we had this convo on the phone or else i would throttle her).

Okay. If u have all the answers, dear, dear r\hr shippers, then answer this: why do we, the h\hr shippers, have so much fun writing these stories? i think of many ideas for a h\hr story about every week...too little time to do them. though...

Another one. Why do we think up so many possible, highly likely thoeries about them? Our brains run wild with them. I just see the r\hr thing as being a small crush. nothing else. h\hr is what you would call real love. And if they want to be... ... then thats fine with them.

"Hate" is a strong word. I think the reason that so many people bash H/HR supporters is that they think if it does occur, it will be because so many people blatantly voiced their opinion in support of it. So it's only natural that they try and shut you up before (In their eyes) Rowling decides to change the books ending to suit all the H/HR fans when in actuality, if it is written in favor of H/HR it will just be because Rowling thought it would read better (And I would completely agree with her of course).

I just finished reading essay by Angua titled "THE PHILOSOPHY OF THE HMS HARMONY". Bear in mind that it's main objective is not to pick apart the H/Hr ship, but, rather, the people who ship H/Hr. It seems as if the author thinks that there's something fundamentally *wrong* with Harmonians. (Although Angua does make a disclaimer at the very end saying that not all Harmonians subscribe to this so-called philosophy. )

Apparently, other shippers see us as contemptuous, annoying, hypocritical preachers with long, upturned noses. We also badly need to be taken down a peg or two so that we would come crashing down from our sky-high pedestals back into their delusion-free reality filled with unresolved issues, humor and sunlit days. Erm, right...

I do believe that the H/Hr ship is one of the most disliked ships, and it might be how we come across to others. We seem intimidating sometimes and other shippers feel inferior when we point out the little bits and pieces that they've missed or hadn't placed any particular sort of importance on. Thus, every little point or comment made by a Harmonian is perceived as an attack on both their IQ and EQs.

Also, ever since the IoD, it feels like that instead of simply disagreeing with our ship, many have turned to bashing Harmonians too. These people have some sort of need to say "Ha ha! You were wrong, I was right. So sink, b****, sink!" (Which strikes me as something Ron would say to Hermione, and vice versa --- except for the b**** part, of course! ) Then there's the mob mentality. If it looks like everyone is bashing and deriding H/Hr's, then others will feel that it's okay to do so as well. [sarcasm] Never mind that Harmonians have feelings too... Don't they know that they're the Luna Lovegoods of the HP world - crazy, quirky, and just plain weird? What a bunch of delusional loonies! [/sarcasm]

On a more fundamental level, H/Hr represents a different set of ideas about life and and love to those who dislike it. There are shippers out there who have no qualms about Dobby/Gollum, but vehemently oppose H/Hr because it just doesn't hold with their viewpoints. As for me, I don't mind if another person disagrees with Harry/Hermione. What gets on my nerves are the same things that gets on most everyone else's, whether they ship H/Hr or not: rude, intolerant and abusive behaviour. And most times, "H/Hr hate" equals just that.

I remember reading that a long while back. My reaction at that essay is still the same: . The Queen Bee of the Mo'Ron hive still hasn't lost her ability to completely miss the point. I love how she unintentionally compliments us then tries to tear us down by using those same compliments.




Interestingly, that's exactly how they view Hermione. I mean, how dare she break out of her role as a sidekick! Returning to the original point, it does seem that the R/Hr and H/G want to keep us "in line".



Nobody likes being reminded of their mistakes, and we definitely take great pains to do exactly that.



Bashing Harmonians does seem to be in fashion now in the fandom.



I agree. I don't really care what other people ship, because it's just their opinion. But when they enter a debate and try to pass their opinions off as fact, that's when I get .

Another Reason they hate us I think is because both Harry and Hermione are the most love people from the books in general, and to put the best together, there is no more goodness for anyone else.

It makes more sense in my head.

I have not yet finished a single one of Angua's essay's I get so frustrated and angry with her long before the end that I simply can't go on... I just hate the way she twists everything, it's like a distorted and selective view of reality...

I like the Luna Lovegood comparison. After all, no doubt 90% of our theories will turn out totally wrong, but we'll have the most important facts straight (like Luna knowing Sirius was innocent)--and we do have a habit of speaking uncomfortable truths... ;^)

I skimmed through the essay just a few minutes ago. I don't think it was anything new we haven't heard as to why are we holding on to something that will never happen in cannon. However,Angua,like most Herons have concluded that HBP basically concluded the shipping war once and for all. Furthermore,Book 7 is just going to be one big epilouge with Harry defeating Voldemort and OBHWF being the clear ship throught the last book. I would have reluctantly agreed with their claim of victory,had this had happened IN Book 7. Yet as Harry's breakup speech to Ginny and the question mark status of R/Hr happened in HBP,instead,that's why I keep to my faith that Harmony does have a strong chance of happening in Book 7. I think one of the reasons why we're looked at as an annoying ship is because when a Heron reads one of our essays,they don't like the fact that we might have a chance at being right about our ship happening as theirs does. Most Herons feel that anyone who's not a shipper but has read the books,must agree with the Heron philosophy that that is the obvious and permanent ship that could happen. They feel Harmony could never happen because H/Hr are too platonically close to become a romantic couple. If that was the case,why then were they put into situations that brought them closer as partners if it wasn't going to lead somewhere? POA and OOTP was the biggest example of H/Hr being thrown together by circumstances (that we all enjoyed reading by the way) that they solved without Ron and convinced Harmonians more than ever that their relationship would grow into a romantic one at some point. It will be intersting to see how H/Hr are once again brought together to solve the Tom Riddle Horcrux mystery in Book 7 and how closer to the truth some of our essays have been as to why they work so well as a duo and possible couple.

Ahh, tis the age of Aquarius (idealism, Dumbledoreisms, and Lunaisms) (What I believe Luna to be). And while the Age of Pisces (blind faith, escapism, Lupinisms and Ronisms) is dieing out, it is giving a good fight in the meanwhile.

~Salamon2

True. I'm expecting a rash and completely unrestrained backlash when H/Hr happen. And you know those doubters will come up with every excuse imaginable. Such loyal propagators of the series that they felt it necessary to debunk everything in a huge tizzy because you know they absolutely LOVED the book prior. If I catch even a wiff of this kind of behavior, I'm going to laugh until I can't breathe.

Hilarious, mark my words, it will be completely ridiculous when it happens.
Oh well, they'll survive.

You remind of the shutdown of SugarQuill right after the release of OotP. Here's to hoping for a repeat performance.

I hope for a repeat preformance too. In fact, I can't wait to read Emerson's reaction if and when H/Hr occurs.

I will start screaming at the top of my lungs when H/Hr happens but I will be laughing at the people that called us delusional. HAHAHA! Only I will just sit back and watch people's reactions and not kick them when they are down like they did to us.

cookiemonster

Oh yeah. I remember that well (from summer of 2003). Funny, after HBP Portkey never shut down for a minute. In fact, if anything, the discussion forums here have exploded with topics and comments. Initially there was a lot of whinging, but I think we pulled ourselves together pretty quickly and started discussing substantive issues, especially the various theories regarding HBP.

Everytime I hear those remarks, I just have to laugh at them because it just shows how jealous, stupid and immature they are! Yay!



Okay, ppl always say to me that I shouldn't get down on that interview. Its just a book. Yeah, it is. It doesn't bother me...but...

I hope Emerson eats his words if H\Hr happens because I will laugh at him so hard.... ....okay, now I'm back to my calm mood

Well, I liken our passion about the H/Hr pairing to that of soccer, since the we're all in the midst of the World Cup Fever.

Many people who are viewing soccer through "the looking glass" see it as a silly game of twenty-two man chasing a ball. Yet, those who are inside, view it differently, and describe it as "the beautiful game" and a language that everyone speaks.

Similarly, many people look at us and tell us, "Hey, it's just a book!" And when we reply to them that it's more than a book, more and more strange looks come our way. But really, is it anything different from what man calls as dreams? An ambitious young lad aspiring to be a doctor; a scientist yearning for the Nobel Prize. Are these people going to be called delusional for having dreams?

Even though we may be described as "millitant", let's not forget that to a person who has not read the books yet, it would be ridiculous to even have shippings for fictional characters, so all those who are shippers, are as "delusional" as us aren't they? Well, if that's the case, then why are they giving us so much flak, when at the end of the day, we are nothing more than fellow HP who read the books and see H/Hr in them.

Please don't talk about the soccer honestly I would have felt better if we'd lost 3-0 than this....

Um back to the topic at hand... I just really hope that it is H/Hr in the end it just seems that there is so much riding on it...

Delusional.... the best works and literary pieces that kids study in school today were considered evil and were persecuted before they were considered literary master pieces....The best ideas and stories actually come from some very imaginative and delusional people, how else would they have come up with those make believe worlds they use in their stories... I suppose... we only see the beauty of something after we fiddle with it long enough and sometimes only a handful would recognize the goodness of something before the rest of the world follows... H/HR is like that... you know it, you see it... but some just look pass it. I'd like to think of our ship that way... We already see it coming and they don't believe it and when it finally comes... i suppose we'll see what will happen...

***Book SIX IS A PIECE of a bigger puzzle... there were things closed but there were definitely windows opened.... Read the series.... and when book seven comes... We'll just see.... I don't claim that our ship would be the one waving the flag of victory but we have a lot of beautiful bits and pieces to support our theory... if in case another ship will victor this battle to the Harry Potter dock... I still think that this ship would not fail... we still have a lot of brilliant fic writers... and anything can happen in the fanfiction world here at portkey... and the Ship will live on...

~Karen~

AGREED! Here, here to karenkate_kitty! Taking the words right out of my mouth.

I don't know if we're really the most hated ship ever, but it definitely feels that way sometimes especially when you go to Heron friendly sites.

Hope ya'll don't throw tomatoes at me, but before OoTP, I used to ship Hermione/Draco. I don't know why. I think I've seen too many 'good girl tames bad boy' movies. After OoTP, however, I was H/Hr all the way. I just couldn't ignore the signs any longer.

I think one of the reasons some Herons hate Harmonians because they believe that we have a tendency to overanalyze the text and that we give the author too much credit for putting in "obscure" and subtle hints toward H/Hr. Well, if that's the case then isn't the opposite also true in that they themselves don't believe her capable of putting in all those subtle clues?
Another reason why our ship gets bashed sometimes is because it's believed that H/Hr is "too obvious" and "too cliche."
In reality, however, all of the possible relationships in the HP universe is based on some sort of cliche. For example ...

good girl tames bad boy --> Lily/James, Hermione/Draco, Ginny/Draco, anybody/Draco(or Snape or Peeves )
hero/damsel --> H/G, H/Hr (at times)
best friends turned lovers --> H/Hr!!!!!!
they-bicker-but-they-really-love-each-other --> R/Hr

It goes on and on of course. I don't understand why some Herons continue to make that argument when their own ship could be considered cliche and obvious as well. If they do want something different as far as relationships are concerned then maybe they should ship Aberforth/goat or Mrs. Black/Kreacher. Heck, how about a threesome Mr.&Mrs. Black/Kreacher. Then again, they'd probably just be considered silly whilst we harmonians get the "delusional" label. How unfair is that?

LOL that made me laugh!

Fear makes people respond to their most basic instincts, most of them considered animal or brute.

In my perfect world, all the "attacks" perpetrated on us were the result of fear. Deep down, Herons and Chocos knew that, even though we suffered a major blow with the whole HBP+interview thing, we still rose from the ashes with the same faith and purpose. That stroke fear in their hearts, because they couldn't understand how we could come with such great theories and clues even after they thought us sunk! Muhuhahahahahah!!!!!!!!- -------------------- oops, got a little carried away there hehehe

aw, forget it, in my perfect dream world neither H/G or R/Hr would've happened!

nah, I guess it's like we're this very annoying stain in the Heron's fine cloth that just won't go away, no matter how many times you wash it (not even with the newest detergent "JKR oxi-action"). And one day, the stain will rule over the cloth!!!!!! ---------------------




OK, I'm in a very silly mood. Forget the oxi-action thing, and the stain... ok, just forget everything I said

^awww! But i love your mood! Its a very good mood. It makes me feel good to know that I'm a strong hhr shipper! bring back the mood!

Right. So...

I don't think rhr was even cliched (nope not supporting them, could never do that..) but it wasn't luv\hate which is my favourite romance of all! i would have spot it right off the bat with these two...but I didn't. Up to this day I still don't see the sexual tension...still don't see it...(think i still support them? u know me better than that! )

'Most hated' is a pretty strong term. I don't think we are, it's just that we're misunderstood. The fact that we still stand by our ship is probably baffling to others, especially to Herons and Chocos and such. But that can't bring us down. Believe my fellow shippers, believe.

If H/Hr isn't the most hated then I don't know who is. I think other ships are more prone to attacking our ship because they are getting insecurities of their own. Even when our ship was supposedly sunk we stood our ground and fought back. Saying that HBP held even more subtle clues then most of the other books. Basically its everything Eristoff-icE said. I think if H/Hr won they would be royally pissed that they've been wrong all along. Especially since the IoD and again our supposed downfall. And maybe because we work real hard for the proof we gain and find. Because ours aren't just thrown at us and aren't weighing us down like anvils. But who knows, ask a really hostile,hard-core heron or choco.

I know why..they unite and they have a very big ship..but I think ours is bigger..and they hate us because once Harmony happen, 2 ship will sink together..their big ship...though I think Emerald Fire Ship is a great name...oh, please..I know..Harmony is better!

I guess the Harmony ship is so maligned because "conventional wisdom" says that R/Hr and H/G are the canon ships and anyone else who says otherwise is delusional.

I was annoyed to read this blurb in Entertainment Weekly, where Ron and Hermione were named #11 in their listing of top sidekicks in pop culture.



First of all, I don't consider Hermione to be Harry's sidekick - she is the heroine of the story and Ron is the sidekick. Again, what literary purpose does it have for these so called sidekicks to hook up? It doesn't make sense. What is worse, EW is also are feeding us the OBHWF crap by mentioning the Weasley clan providing Harry with a family. At least they don't mention Ginny by name (and according to their death odds - she has a good chance of dying in book 7).

I was listening to Mugglecast (Mugglenet's podcast), which is actually pretty interesting when they don't put their obvious shipping bias into the mix. One of the hosts of the show even thought that R/Hr would get married in Book 7!
BTW, most of these hosts are on the young side (high school or college age) and male (like Mr. Mugglenet himself, Emerson). And they all love Ginny, mainly because "she's hot." They all want a girlfriend like Ginny, so that is why they ship H/G.

My point? I'm spoiled by coming here to Portkey, where most of us love H/Hr and believe they will be the ultimate canon ship. The rest of the world ignores us or hates us because we have a different (and possibly right) opinion.

When H/Hr happens, I can't wait for all these people in the media and fandom who assumed that OBHWF was going to happen will be shocked and say - "Who knew?" Well, we did!

Yeah,yeah. Choco out there support H/G because of the very shallow reason of 'She's hot'.

Another shining example of 'holier than you' H/Hr. That's exactly what get the ship hated.

oh ho ho!!! Choco in da house! ladies and gentlemen

If its true, and we are really one of the most hated ships in fandom, or THE most hated ship in the harry potter series, i think i know why.

As im sure we ALL know, and are painfully aware of - there is a huge battle currently between three of the most famous ships in HP fandom = H/Hr vs. R/HR and H/G.

Sure, R/Hr and H/G are the favourites for the series end, but although we are small, we still have a very large chance.

As we claim, our ship that we sail requires thinking. Reading between the lines. Subtext. While the other two are "Inescapeably Obvious" ...

And without refering to that interview, I believe although our ship has hit hard, it still sails. I think its also because our ship deals with two of the most important major characters, the ones in which the whole plot is basically centered on.

And believe it or not, we ARE intimidating.

If, by the series end, JK does go pro-H/HR, and if our ship sails, we will bring two ships down. Making our ship one of the most destructive out there.

For eg. If R/Lu happened - only one ship will be destroyed. Three guesses who.

If N/G or D/G happened - only H/G would go down.

But if Harmony happens, it destroys the beginning and end of OBHWF. And thats what is making us the most unpopular ship right now.

Fingers crossed ay?

Well to be honest I could care less if we are the most hated ship or not. I mean I don't go to mugglenet anymore, or any other ship biased site. I come here to talk about the BEST ship in my opinion. Whether or not H/Hr happen or not will not sink my Harmony ship because I believe in it. I'll just maintain my present heading and if it doesn't happen then I'll just sail right on into the wonderful world of fanfiction.

I think part of the problem with R/Hr's and H/G's is that they think that if it isn't in canon then you can't ship it!!!

That is why they get upset with us. Because most of us H/Hr's will STILL be H/Hr even if they never happen and for the life of them they can't figure out why that is. They can't fathom a different ship than what they think the author intends.

Thats my opinion anyway

Now I won't say all chocos and herons are like that because there are a few on this site that I rather enjoy seein post. But others well.....I won't go there

Manda

We are definitely the most hated ship...the only reason all those Mo'rons and Chocos try to act all brave and defiant is because they're scared, trembling, quaking, paranoid and paralyzed with fear at the menace Harmony represents to their pseudo-ships...and after all the bashing we've endured from a bunch of gutless loudmouths, I say we're going to be merciless. Rest assured, book seven comes out, R/Hr and H/G are going to sink like stones...

P.S .Who else thinks "rest assured" is an oxymoron?

When I read the piece from EW,I really thought I was going to be sick. Once again the Heron/Choco propaganda wagon never ceases to slow down. I guess this reporter was basing his little newspiece on how obvious it is that R/Hr are going to become a couple. But like most Herons who overlook the qualties in why we support H/Hr,he went soley on what is supposed to be iron-clad proff from JKR that the last book will end OBHWF. That is considering that H/Hr will not have any meaningful moments in Book 7. Let's not forget that the odd number books are usually in our favor,so I won't be surprised when H/Hr finally happens in Book 7. What I can't wait to read is how shocking JKR will write how their friendship deepens from more than friends. I thought it was clearly understood that Hermione is the herione of the story to Harry's hero,but I guess some people need reminding of that fact.