Journalists write to sell their stuff. Period. I can relate to you dozens of examples of media bias in determining the public concensus. Magazines write to support the majority of the public, and the public get the majority of their opinions from magazines. There is no room in this cycle to think solely or self-reflect. It's easier to let the Man speak for you and make your decisions than it is to think hard and long about what's given to you. There is a reason why the general public of the USA doesn't vote for Presidential elections. It's sad, but true...in the moment of confusion, all parties will rely on what they read in a magazine or what someone told them on the street. But who wants to think so hard? Not in our society which has a sort of stigma of pain in association of thinking.


Sorry, I didn't mean to get off like that, but I wouldn't make much of EW's spoon-fed reflections. Every magazine said the same thing post-release of HBP: the same ol' Ginny is the fiery red-head with the stamina and the will to give Potter hope in this punch-drunk schmaltzy piece of tripe.

Don't worry though, the release of Book the Seventh will relieve us of this momentary lack of sanity in today's world.

More proof we're the most hated (although I don't fully understand why):

I just saw the most farcical thing on a different forum....it was a "ship elimination" thread. And, shocker of all shocks, guess which ship was the first to be given the axe post-haste? Mind you, SLASH pairings survived longer than H/Hr. (That's not meant as an offense to slash shippers!!!) It's kind of amazing how they keep finding little ways to indirectly slight our ship....just amazing...

Herons and Chocos feel that H/Hr will be the ship to ruin theirs. Plain and Simple. Harry and Hermione have always had a connection and are true friends, unlike Harry and Ginny.

I understand some points that were made, but do not agree with them...

One person said that these are children's books, therefore H/Hr would be too difficult to explain...Hold on...JK has children of her own and, being a mother myself, I think children deserve purity, friendship, trust and respect. They learn from models and what better than to show a love grown from friendship, mutual respect and acceptance for who a person is; not who they try to be. We want them to be able to see what love is and not just a phony imitation.

Another person said that authors only write to make money. In some cases, yes. Authors 'sell out' to sell books. I am assuming of course, since I don't personally know JK, but the woman has spent over a decade and a half weaving this extraordinary tale for us; not as a quick-sell single novel, but as a 7 book series. That sounds more like passion, blood, sweat and tears put into those books! And 15+ years would be a long time if she had just wanted to "cash in".

Sorry, got a bit off topic.

The reason I think we're the most hated ship is because Herons and Chocos cannot fathom a pure love. I know that sounds awful, but hear me out...

Herons ship R/Hr because (again, I'm assuming) it seems so obvious. #1 - He is mean to her so he must like her, right? Just like a 5 year old boy hits the little 5 year old girl when he thinks she's cute...but, Hermione (during HBP) is already 17 and Ron turned 17 in March (midway through the book). Don't you think that this "love" that they're in would have matured with them? Alas, it does not. To me, this theory is getting a bit old. #2 They try to make each other jealous so the other one will notice them. Ugh. Isn't that pathetic? If you are so smitten over someone, they shouldn't have to 'make' you notice them. And in HBP, it seemed like Harry was a bit jealous if you ask me... #3 I don't even have a number three cause I'll never understand a Heron's thought process...

Why do Chocos ship H/G? Good question...I guess they think that Ginny is the perfect little princess who will help Harry defeat the big, bad Dark Lord and they'll live happily ever after *GAGS* I think that most Chocos would be young girls who want to be like Super!Ginny and get the guy...or...young boys who think that Ginny is a good catch cause she's oh, so fab at quidditch and has such a spunky attitude. For me, I view Ginny as a spoiled little girl who could use to be put in her place...but that's neither here nor there...

But, we H/Hr shippers out there see more than meets the eye...we see what the Herons and Chocos don't and can't. We see the fact that Hermione is always there for Harry above all others, including herself. We see how he seeks out her approval and has a fear of disappointing her. We see how they speak without words and know what the other is thinking before they know themselves. Is it obvious? No, and that's why it's so great. It's like one of my favorite sayings..."There is nothing gone, but there is something missing". Not to get all "Jerry Maguire" on you, but they complete each other. I challenge all the Herons/Chocos out there to name ONE thing that Ron adds to Hermione and/or Ginny adds to Harry on an intellectual/mental/or emotional level. Without Harry, Hermione would not be who she is, nor would Harry without Hermione.

If it ends up OBHWF, it's kind of anti-climactic...kind of a "who cares". But if it ends H/Hr, it could be one of the greatest (and purest) love stories ever...and isn't that what the Harry Potter books are really all about?

Anyway, to sum this monster up, I think we are the most hated ship because we see the love that they wish they could.

The reason I think we are sometimes disliked is that Herons and Chocos see statements like the above and feel, unsurprisingly, condescended to and treated as if they are the stupidest people alive, worthy only to be pitied in their ignorance.

Why would anybody react well to that?

Of course when you take what I said out of context, it does seem mean and condescending. That's exactly why I said "I know that sounds awful, but hear me out". In my entire response, I noted, more than once, that it was solely MY opinion. I don't know how they think, so I have to venture out and take what I know about them and what they have said to me. I chat on Mugglenet all the time (under the name "delusional"), and have taken what they say directly to me about how/why they choose their ship. If you disagree with anything that I said, then point it out.

I do not feel the least bit bad about what I said because it is my opinion. Do I get all teary-eyed when they rip me apart on MN? No, they can have their opinions and say them freely, as I do. That's the beauty in it.

Was my statement harsh? Yes, it was. Was it intentionally harsh to hurt their feelings and make them feel "stupid". Of course not. I was merely explaining, IMO, why we are the most hated ship...isn't that what this thread is called...

But that is the end result, nonetheless. Do you really think that a Heron could read that and not feel personally got at?

They don't hate us because we have good arguments that scupper their ship. They hate us because they think we have a tendency to make those arguments personal and then set ourselves up on the moral high ground, saying "we didn't mean to do it", when we knew full well what reaction would result. I happen to think that that is a tendency that works both ways, but we can't complain if we're not willing to stop doing it ourselves.

If you think H/Hr is a better form of love then argue that all you wish - I happen to agree with you. But if you make it personal ("they can't fathom it because it's a better form of love") then your argument will not be remembered, but the personal remark will be.

wow...this topic sure has gotten heated! i think everybody that has posted has come up with good ideas. let me just say that i used to be a heron/choco shipper prior to ootp. for me, the ron/hermione pairing was the easy way out. ron has been my favorite character from book one and basically what i wanted was for him not to be lonely: harry had a crush on cho chang after all, why not give ron somebody? it wasnt in any way ideal and it certainly didnt do hermione's character much justice, but it satisfied me for a while and i didnt have to think as deeply on the subject. and then ootp hit me. not only was it chalked full of h/hr chemistry, but luna lovegood was introduced, who has a very obvious crush on ron.

basically for me i had to overcome a specific obstacle before i could finally open my eyes and become willing to dig deeper. after i overcame that obstacle i could see harry and hermione's relationship more clearly.

i dont know how today's herons/chocos feel since i converted a while back, but it could be possible that some of them hate us so much because they have yet to get past their own obstacles and cant yet see our path. and some may never be able to see our side. and i'm okay with that. most of my friends are diehard herons and are willing to accept that i'm a harmonian. all we can do is keep faith in our ship and hope that jkr sees things through the same lenses we do.

<3

I'm yaoi fan too (concerning HP, I ship Draco/Harry) and I'm not insane

However, in my opinion there're many reasons for that, but I'm saying the main one according to me. A R/Hr shipper I know clearly said to me they "hate" us, above all after HBP, because we postpone their victory until next two years. We have different points of view and they're afraid of our ship, but we're afraid of theirs too...so it's normal there're wrangles. Evidence and obviousness are on their side and they can't stand we still don't recognize their ship as the canon one so I think, also based on what this R/Hr shipper said to me, many of Herons are not (or becomed is more like it) completely genuine shippers. I mean that, after debating and fighting with us, they want R/Hr to be canon especially in revenge on us. Many of them, thinking of R/Hr happening, don't say to themselves "Oh! Great, I love them" but "Oh! Can't wait for H/Hr shippers' reaction". I don't blame anyone, despite all in my opinion it's quite ordinary in situations like this even if I think it's childish and almost all-merciful. They just can't believe we don't see the R/Hr's evidence and as we don't change mind about canon they feel more and more irritated. And obviously, we all say that, our obstinancy scares them

About other shippers, I think they "hate" us as a consequence. I don't know in foreign communities, but in Italian ones R/Hr shippers and H/G shippers until HBP had mainly been differents groups. Other ships&yaoi fans commonly see R/Hr as the final ship like Herons and the canon topic don't "interest" them.
Sorry for bad English.

As a Ron/Hermione shipper, I can tell exactly why a few of my peers "hate" the Harry Hermione ship.
Not because they (I say "they" because though I am a Heron, I don't hate H/Hr) are desperately jealous of the superior Harmonian philosphy, or because they...what was it? "Cannot fathom a pure love"?
I'm afraid to say (And really, I am! ) that teh truth is a lot less dramatic and more down-to-earth.
Herons hate Harmonians either because
A ) Said Harmonian(s) has a "holier-than-thou" attitude, claiming that their philosophy is more intelligent, romantic, and has much more meaning and depth.
or
B ) They feel Harmonians "don't get it". Like many of you might have suggested, they feel the shipping is a done deal. Harmonians to them are like those nuts spouting off that Snape is still a vampire or that Dumbledore isn't dead--still subscribing to this belief even though the books don't point that way, Jo shot it down herself, etc. A lot of these people have absolutely NO problem with people liking Harmony as a PREFERENCE to canon, it's when the person starts saying it's FACT that they get terribly annoyed.

Please keep in mind that I do not dislike people who ship Harmony, whether they think it's going to happen in book 7 or they just like the idea better
But in all honesty, I find the people like in example A to be slightly irritating, no matter what they ship! There are some Harmonians who think that that all Herons are like big, blind, stupid sheep, following without question, and inable to comprehend deep, true love. Of course Herons wouldn't take to taht kindly! (Of course, on the other hand, there are the Herons who think Harmonians are nothing but delusional freaks, and I know you guys don't take kindly to taht either!)
Really, though, it's only natural to want to paint your enemies in the worst way possible.

So basically, I started out with a half-formed idea, lost track in the middle of typing, and concluded with a rambling muse about the shipping wars. What did I add to this conversation? I...don't...know... More fuel to the fire, probably.

That and that they can't follow the argumentation...at least this I heard as well like the symbolism and all. Nevermind we argue canon just as throughoutly like H/G or R/Hr shippers.



Yes...but enlight me why do you or they care that terrible much if this is anyway a crazy idea? It's like you wish to save our poor souls from hell.

I agree; I mean, obviously we have our faults, we're not angels...and they don't wish to save our souls from hell, they get irritated because we get into question their loved OBHWF. But they did before HBP too. You can guess the problem is only theirs: we can't change mind or stop saying our opinions only because they annoyes them. World doesn't work like this.



Ehehehehe! I don't hate H/G but I think too that we H/Hr shippers will *always* be right. We affirm romance without H/Hr would suck and actually HBP sucks in this sense

Whoah, whoah! I never said this was MY opinion! I personally feel that nothing is definite until the end--Harmony could indeed sail to victory, I don't deny it I also feel that NO ONE should be condemned for their personal beliefs, and I do get slightly annoyed whenever people make broad generalizations about Harmonians/Herons/etc.
I'm simply stating why some (or...many...) Herons dislike/loathe Harmony.

You know, after reading over my first reply, I have come to the conclusion that I have an appalling lack of control over what I actually mean and what I actually say.

I understand what you are saying and I too have no control over what I say either. Sometimes what you say is taking for something completely different most likely then not it ends up being twisted to something mean. I see where herons come from, it's just that I don't agree with it. And I personally don't think JKR exactly shot us down. It more of a throw off the ship then actually sinking us. And I think every ship has those who believe in their ship and nothing any other shipper says its always wrong. We have them and you have them everyone has them. And those who intentionally say hurtful things to others are in all ships as well. I don't think you can ask a question like why you're hated without getting some very hurtful comments back.

Exactly! My reply was not meant to bash the Herons/Chocos, I was simply giving MY opinion of why they dislike/hate us. It came across harsh, it was harsh, but that's how I feel. How can you say I'm wrong? I never said "Herons and Chocos hate us because...". If you "re-read" my reply, I made it quite clear that it was my opinion and I obviously don't know (for a fact) why they hate us cause I'm not them! And, again, of course it was a "broad generalization", what else would it be?

And before anyone gets all "holier than thou", I challenge you to chat on Mugglenet under the name "delusional" or "H/Hrforever ", as I do and then tell me how wrong I am. I'm not trying to stoop to any level, but it is how I feel, sorry.

So, I'm changing my mind... I guess I'm the reason that Herons and Chocos hate us! It was news to me! To all my fellow Harmonians, I apologize now for the detrimental effects of my post!!! Please forgive me!

I'm chatting on there at the moment (in the discussion about Ginny, among other things), and have made no secret of my preferred ship.

I did feel that they were a little suspicious when I said I came from Portkey - another poster mentioned that they had been here after HBP came out and was horrified at the behaviour exhibited, and that's made them think badly of H/Hr shippers in general.

Generally, though, I am having interesting and pleasant conversations with the Herons/Chocolateers, despite the fact that we agree on hardly anything! If I were to start telling them, however, that I felt that they couldn't understand H/Hr because they couldn't fathom a love of that depth, then despite my protest of it being only my opinion and a broad generalisation, I think our conversations would take a turn for the worse. I know I didn't take well to being called "delusional" - and that was a personal opinion and a broad generalisation if ever there was one.

I fully believe that you may be the target of personal attacks by some posters at Mugglenet - just as some Herons have come here and been treated poorly in the past. The solution is not to respond in kind.

This whole 'holier than thou' attitude or the exaggeration of it to represent all Harmony shippers is ridiculous, but it's warranted that it will come up as the most influential reason why H/Hr is considered an abomination. People hate being chastised and lectured on their inability to rationalize something that seems to be a concensus to a significant amount of people, no matter if it's talking about preferences of Mexican food, types of personal computer, or Harry Potter.

As an example, in my own life, I have a few friends who are more inclined to believe in the R/Hr angle and when we brush upon our discussions of all things HP, I tell them bluntly that I will refuse to engage in any shipper talk. I don't even want to go down that path. Going down the shipper path opens up a whole box of emotional baggage, a lot of 'well, I think that's obvious...' or 'but I mean, they aren't even compatible.' In my opinion, I don't think it measures anything worthwhile to even discuss shipping aspects of any book if you don't consider the text. As usual to a true-blue Harmonian, I love to analyze. Analysis is methodical and all-encompassing. There's no room for petty feelings or half-hearted instincts. You agree to a certain degree when you debate analytically and then stop when you reach the point of disagreement. It's what you feel at those incidences that shape why you believe in one ship or another.
I think the sense that it takes a certain amount of maturity and patience to debate in the upbove manner leads to certain people feeling that they are more mature than those that give up and whine in protest.

Awesome, I said what I meant without offending and got lovely replies back
I agree with the ones who say there are bad ones on every ship--thankfully, many do open their eyes



I actually agree with you. I feel almost personally offended myself when Herons insult Harmonians. However, the Mugglenet forums (Chamber of Secrets) is a lot better now. I see a few people with "H/Hr forever" in their sigs and no one seems to mind. (For all I know, though...) In fact, most Herons that I know personally have little problem with the fact that they and Harmonians disagree...it's when both go into detail as to WHY they disagree that things get ugly....

I was thinking about this the other day... please humor me while I expound a little scenario that I had going.

Imagine....

Your at the football (code irrelevant) the siren has just gone for 3/4 time (or whatever, the last break before the final term of play is in your code) and your team is up by what seems to you to be a clear winning margin. You've been sitting amongst friends who all support your team and you all agree that the game may as well be over.

You get up to use the bathroom... or maybe you go to get a hotdog, and you hear supporters of the other team analysing the match and talking about how their team will certainly come back and win the game.

You are startled to say the least.. that anyone could hold this opinion seems bizarre! So you stop and ask them how they have arrived at this startling conclusion....

They then proceed to produce all kinds of amazing statistics about the history of the two teams, the ground and conditions, the players that have been injured and the ones being brought on as substitutes..... and on and on ad infinitem....

You are flabbergastered, you point to the scoreboard... but we are well ahead you say, we are obviously going to win!

An announcer comes over the loud speaker and says "It seems like it's all over for the Harmonians"...

"see!" you say it's all over...

"Well that announcer is Heron supporter and anyway he said seems it isn't over till it's over"

"But..." you stammer, "we've practically already won!"

They smile smuggly in response... "you haven't won yet and I don't think you will"

*****

It'd be infuriating wouldn't it?

I think that's why they hate us.